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Introductions and Testimonies Please tell everybody something about yourself. Tell us a little. Tell us a lot. Its up to you!

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Old 09-26-2019, 09:37 PM   #1
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The matter of COVERING in LSM churches

Sheeple 1: son, MOTA taught us that we should cover our spiritual father when he is drunken with wine and naked.

Sheeple 2: father, I hear the top sheeeps sounding an urgent message to me. Their words say "We are your fathers, we looove YOU, WE COVERRR!!! YOU."

Sheeple 2: how many fathers do I have? Why are they covering me?

Sheeple 1: so that you don't see them naked. The LSM covering is so versatile they can cover you so that you are covering them. Heed their message, lest they cover the DNA father away from the DNA son.

LSM brand covering, versatility to impress.
Ooops. Oppress.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:14 AM   #2
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LSM vision of God created man

Sheeple27 : Wao! I've never seen it this way.

Sheeple4 : what?

Sheeple27 : RK in 2018 conference said: the verb 'form' as in Genesis God formed man is 'a potter making a vessel'. He said look into a full length mirror and admit it, everyone of us looks like a bottle. He said man is a bottle with an opening at the top!

Sheeple4: Ah ha! But wait ... let me think about it...why is RK a bottle with an opening at the top as well as with an opening at the bottom? Is it because only he has authority to go to toilet?

correction: authority should be 'delegated authority'.
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:52 PM   #3
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correction: authority should be 'delegated authority'.
I thought about this. "Deputy authority" should be, at best, "delegated authority."

So why don't they use the correct phrase? Because "deputy" sounds more impressive. It makes the "authorities" seem more like big shots. And the LR leaders looove to be big shots.

Here's a Blended Brother unleashing his awesome deputy authority. But sure to tremble as he speaks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1bOo9LsfXY

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Old 09-27-2019, 02:38 PM   #4
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Listening to RK speaking, he only hinted he and top blendeds are 'delegated authority'. Deputy Authority is still WL.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:41 PM   #5
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Cal - He's got the right haircut. Does Barney also have an elder bag!?

And does this remind you of any one?: Barney recits the Preamble to US Constitution
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:42 PM   #6
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There is a website "https://shepherdingwords.com/"

Top Sheeeps: Let’s have a genuine fellowship to quash your concerns over the alleged abuse of authority.

Top Sheeeps: Spiritual Authority, a book translated and published by Stephen Kaung, became popular among Western believers in the early 1970s. Since then it has been misused by some to assert themselves as authorities and criticized by others who blame it for such abuse. Both the misuse and the criticism miss the mark.

sheeples: We don’t know this book that was published in the early 70s. Some of us are not even born yet. We were told to only read LSM published books. We know only ONE publication and our elders have signed us off to be life-long customers of this one publication goods.

sheeples: We are concerned that there is abuse of power of authority in our congregation.

Top Sheeeps: This mess of some having misused Kaung’s book to assert themselves as authorities and others have criticised them, blaming the book for such abuse, is ALL there is concerning the abuse of authority.

Top Sheeeps: Both the misuse and the criticism miss the mark. After the break we’ll tell you about missing the mark.

sheeples: - - - - -
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:31 AM   #7
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Thanks A2Z, it now makes so much sense.
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:35 AM   #8
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Someone on this forum once posted something Stepehen Kaung said about the church in New York.
How to find this information?
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Old 09-29-2019, 06:22 AM   #9
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Someone on this forum once posted something Stepehen Kaung said about the church in New York.
How to find this information?
Steve Isitt has written and compiled many articles on LC history.

Here is one paper that addresses Stephen Kaung.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:27 AM   #10
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Steve Isitt has written and compiled many articles on LC history.

Here is one paper that addresses Stephen Kaung.
Isn't Stephen Kaung Lee lite? Minus the ground. Lee went with dirt, and Kaung went with Sparks : the ground is Christ. But otherwise, both are Nee copycats?

Either way, it's Neeism, or Nee worship ... as in : Only ... Nee was the only and real minister of this age. They all push Christ to do it.

Still, Kaung is better than Lee. Kaung is humble (not I but Christ) ... and Lee? Well read the 1988 conference thread. Plus, he's joined the maggots.

Isa_14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your covers.

And Nee? Wasn't he worse than King David, in his private life? and more like Solomon ... or was that Lee's sons? Also Neeites ... but the private Nee ... that all the Lee's knew about ; the great Lee Nee cover up.

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Old 09-29-2019, 10:30 AM   #11
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And Nee? Wasn't he worse than King David, in his private life?
Yes, but God said several times that David didn't sin - because he was faithful to the Lord and didn't pursue idols!
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Old 09-29-2019, 11:17 AM   #12
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Yes, but God said several times that David didn't sin - because he was faithful to the Lord and didn't pursue idols!
But David still had to pay the price : lost a son, daughter Tamar raped, the sword would never leave his house, and, "Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.'"-2 Samuel 12:10-12

And Nee went to prison.
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:32 AM   #13
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I thought about this. "Deputy authority" should be, at best, "delegated authority."

So why don't they use the correct phrase? Because "deputy" sounds more impressive. It makes the "authorities" seem more like big shots. And the LR leaders looove to be big shots.

Here's a Blended Brother unleashing his awesome deputy authority. But sure to tremble as he speaks!
The original Chinese word is 代表权威, which literal translation is "delegated authority". I guess the guy who translated Watchman Nee's works mis-translated this Chinese word into "deputy authority", resulting in confusion.


Um...wait... he would have been correct... in his foresight...
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:15 AM   #14
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The original Chinese word is 代表权威, which literal translation is "delegated authority". I guess the guy who translated Watchman Nee's works mis-translated this Chinese word into "deputy authority", resulting in confusion.


Um...wait... he would have been correct... in his foresight...
Delegated or deputy, both end in authority. The doctrine, no matter how framed, gave God's authority to a man ... in this case Lee, and previously, to Nee ... and now, I guess, to the Blended's.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:32 PM   #15
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Cal - He's got the right haircut. Does Barney also have an elder bag!?

And does this remind you of any one?: Barney recits the Preamble to US Constitution
Yes, our deputy authority has one of the old model ''elder bags.'' I think that LSM bookstores used to sell that one as ''the John Engles bag.'' They dropped that name, for some reason.
The last time I went to an LC meeting, a lot of people had back packs. It kind of seems like the old elder bags are no longer ''in.''
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:17 PM   #16
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Yes, our deputy authority has one of the old model ''elder bags.'' I think that LSM bookstores used to sell that one as ''the John Engles bag.'' They dropped that name, for some reason.
The last time I went to an LC meeting, a lot of people had back packs. It kind of seems like the old elder bags are no longer ''in.''
So does that mean wing-tips are out too?
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:26 AM   #17
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Back in the 70s, it was "white shirt, skinny tie, briefcase, and wingtip shoes."
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:10 AM   #18
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Back in the 70s, it was "white shirt, skinny tie, briefcase, and wingtip shoes."
And it fit the IBM dress code, except skinny tie was considered outdated. And other field tech's made fun of it when we met for lunch, or breakfast.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:37 AM   #19
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And it fit the IBM dress code, except skinny tie was considered outdated. And other field tech's made fun of it when we met for lunch, or breakfast.
Even without the LC, Christianity has often managed to be out-of-sync with the society around it. Now I realize that we are not to be part of the world, but to the extent that it is not a truly spiritual issue, we have tended to stay a generation behind. Preach against whatever is modern, then adopt it once it is yesterday’s news.

And the elder/leading one’s attire was a pretty good example of just that. Trying to be different just because it seems spiritual.
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:28 AM   #20
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Back in the 70s, it was "white shirt, skinny tie, briefcase, and wingtip shoes."
Are you sure they weren't MIB (Men in Black)?
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:07 AM   #21
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Even without the LC, Christianity has often managed to be out-of-sync with the society around it. Now I realize that we are not to be part of the world, but to the extent that it is not a truly spiritual issue, we have tended to stay a generation behind. Preach against whatever is modern, then adopt it once it is yesterday’s news.
This is true for the Southern Baptist Convention, concerning blacks and women, and the Mormon church as well.

And I think the RCC is about to keep up with LGBTQ, by allowing gay priests that aren't pedophiles. But still holding to celibacy, infallibility of the pope, and transubstantiation.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:08 PM   #22
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I wasn't sure where to post this commentary noted on the right side of the forum so I picked this one.

From Watchman Nee:
Quote:
Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough. Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet. Therefore, they have not overcome. If they committed more sins, it would be easier for them to overcome. If they saw the corruption of the flesh, it would be easier for them to overcome.------->The Overcoming Life
Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough.???? Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet.????

Well. That explains how they 'justified' their sins of fornication, adultery, their hypocracy (especially Lee's)
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:32 PM   #23
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I wasn't sure where to post this commentary noted on the right side of the forum so I picked this one.

From Watchman Nee:


Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough.???? Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet.????
I suppose that's why Nee was racking up sins in his private life. To be an overcomer.
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Old 10-03-2019, 01:45 AM   #24
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Cont. from post #6
There is a website "https://shepherdingwords.com/"

Top Sheeeps: Living Stream Ministry translated messages given by Watchman Nee and published in English under the title ‘Authority and Submission’.

Top Sheeeps: This title reflects the book’s dual emphasis. Authority is first. Submission is second.

sheeples: -----------

Top Sheeeps: Kaung’s book ‘Spiritual Authority’ missed the mark. He only has ‘authority’ but no ‘submission’!

sheeples: We are not talking about people that we don’t know at all. It is not about book titles. Abuses in our LSM local churches make us question the MOTA high peak ‘revelations’.

Top Sheeeps: But YES! This is exactly the answer to your questions! You don’t know them but we are telling you they are the ones to blame. Don’t ever think that we have abused authority. We have the mark. We have SUBMISSION! They missed the mark.

Top Sheeeps: We are the God-d-dained authority, we first, then secondly is you. We do not miss the mark because we've put you right on the mark of submission. Look at yourselves. What a beautiful sight!

Top Sheeeps: YOU are the submission! By your submission to us, you are proof that there is no abuse of authority in our unique body. You are put right on the mark! If you miss the mark of submission, you abused authority. We’ll call on a hole to open up and swallow you …

sheeples: … eh? …. what is what co-workers of North America said of what BBs said of what MOTA said of what WN said of ....

sheeples: what does Jesus say?

sheeples: God in these last days spoke to us by his Son


apostle Paul: II Corinthians 10: 8
For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:07 AM   #25
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I wasn't sure where to post this commentary noted on the right side of the forum so I picked this one.

From Watchman Nee:
Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough.???? Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet.????

Well. That explains how they 'justified' their sins of fornication, adultery, their hypocrisy (especially Lee's)
Yes, I saw that too and wondered if there shouldn't be some commentary! Paul asks the question in Romans 6:1 - "Should we sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who have died to sin continue to live in it?"

But to be fair, what was Nee's intention in saying this? Let me take a stab at it. The flesh will always be the flesh and will not get any better, and God has left us with it for a purpose. But, even after all these years, we still try to do things out of the flesh. Why? Because perhaps we haven't fully seen the complete futility of our flesh and how bad it really is! In my two weekly men's fellowships we have a lot of discussion about the flesh, and recently we've had talk about how our flesh actually seems to be getting worse. This thought seems to have backing in scripture as Ephesians 4:22 says the flesh is being corrupted. But until we realize that the flesh is really evil and against God, we might not be as motivated to walk in spirit. (or, some might say that as we go on we just see the sinfulness of the flesh more clearly . . .)

We know that God often has to bring us to the very bottom, usually with much failure, before we can surrender and give ourselves fully to him. Is this what Nee is trying to say?
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:19 AM   #26
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The flesh will always be the flesh and will not get any better, and God has left us with it for a purpose. But, even after all these years, we still try to do things out of the flesh. Why? Because perhaps we haven't fully seen the complete futility of our flesh and how bad it really is!
The flesh is our biggest problem. It places undeniable demands on us all day long, and even into the night. Just feeding and hydrating the flesh is a constant concern. I hate the flesh, with all it's demands, but that doesn't stop me taking care of all the demands of the flesh all the time.

Is it any wonder that we hate the flesh?
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:27 AM   #27
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The flesh is our biggest problem. It places undeniable demands on us all day long, and even into the night. Just feeding and hydrating the flesh is a constant concern. I hate the flesh, with all it's demands, but that doesn't stop me taking care of all the demands of the flesh all the time.

Is it any wonder that we hate the flesh?
I mentioned that we've had a good deal of discussion around the flesh in my men's fellowships. Last week someone shared this thought (they said it had been around awhile): "When I'm going up to meet the Lord and my flesh is falling away . . . as it sinks out of sight I will speak to it and say, 'Thanks for escorting me to Christ all these years!'" So maybe we can say it's kind of a love/hate thing we have with the flesh!
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Old 10-03-2019, 11:04 AM   #28
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Yes, I saw that too and wondered if there shouldn't be some commentary! Paul asks the question in Romans 6:1 - "Should we sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who have died to sin continue to live in it?"

But to be fair, what was Nee's intention in saying this?
We know that God often has to bring us to the very bottom, usually with much failure, before we can surrender and give ourselves fully to him. Is this what Nee is trying to say?
I thought of Romans 6 too. I also wonder if there was more to this commentary by Nee but was cut short...perhaps I jumped the gun. However, Nee and Lee's spiritual reputation has become very questionable in recent years..especially Lee's.

What I know and have experienced myself is if we continuously sin, knowingly or not and we are GOD'S, we will hit rock bottom. But through the Mercy and Grace of God, He will shine shine His Light on our darkness, we will repent, we will completely surrender and give ourselves fully to Christ and seek Him deeply until God calls us home.

In addition to our confession, He restores our inner peace and gives Joy unspeakable. HE HEALS our spiritual and emotional wounds. He is faithful to supply all our earthly needs. He makes all things new. He will never leave us or forsake us. He renews our mind in Christ Jesus. He transforms us. He sanctifies us. His Goodness and Mercy follows us all the days of our lives.

And if continuously grab hold and apply His Cleansing Blood, Jesus will keep us from sinning. He will protect us from the evil one. He will strengthen our spirit and soul..even our mortal body although this one seems to be more slow going. {sigh}

THIS IS A FACT! God keeps His Word.
Glory to His Holy and Blessed Name.
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:18 PM   #29
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So does that mean wing-tips are out too?
Wing tips are NEVER out!
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:03 PM   #30
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Wing tips are NEVER out!
Hey, I have a pair of smooth cordoba ones that I wear whenever I want to look conservative chic (at least in my own mind . . .)!
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:22 PM   #31
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Wing tips are NEVER out!
I know. That's what Jesus wore.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:08 PM   #32
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Recovery

Sheeple 19: why has Hank Hanegraaff chrismationed into the Eastern Orthodox Church?

sheeple 20: is it a deeper recovery of ‘becoming god’?

sheeple 21: church father Athanasius who gave us the theology of ‘For the Son of God became man so that we might become God’ is of the Eastern Orthodox

sheeple 22: eh … but more than a century earlier St.Irenaeus of the Roman Catholic said ‘God had become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.’

Sheeple 20: hmmm … the recovery is not deep enough …
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:43 AM   #33
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Concerning Teaching

LSM Co-workers: In 1 Timothy 1:3-4 Paul told his co-worker Timothy to charge some in Ephesus not to teach things other than God’s economy.

FB poster M: Is this what those verses say?

I Timothy 1:3-4 : Even as I exhorted you, when I was going into Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus in order that you might charge certain ones not to teach different things nor to give heed to myths and unending genealogies, which produce questionings rather than God's economy, which is in faith.

FB poster M: The verse says that teaching “different things” produces questionings rather than producing God’s economy.

FB poster M: So it’s actually the teaching of the correct, accurate, healthy things which produces God’s economy. It doesn’t say to teach God’s economy.

sheeple 9: It says 'to teach the healthy things so that God’s economy is produced'.

sheeples : So…o… what actually is ‘God’s economy’?

sheeple 9: It is the result of teaching healthy teaching (sound doctrine).

FB poster M: Healthy teaching is ‘according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God’ (I Timothy 1: 11).

FB poster M: The gospel is ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners’ (I Timothy 1: 15); ‘believe on Him unto eternal life’ (I Timothy 1: 16)

Teaching things different from healthy teaching and giving heed to myths and unending genealogies, would produce questionings rather than …
ReV: God’s economy, which is in faith
KJV: godly edifying which is in faith
NIV: advancing God's work--which is by faith
NLT: live a life of faith in God
ESV: the stewardship from God that is by faith
WNT: true stewardship for God, which only exists where there is faith

sheepless: So…o …, ‘God’s economy’ is not a teaching. That’s sooo sad!

SAD.
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Old 11-09-2019, 03:34 AM   #34
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Concerning Teaching

FB poster M: The Recovery Version outline section header for these verses (I Timothy 1: 3-4) says “God’s Economy versus Different Teachings”.

FB poster M: This is comparing cause X to effect Y, rather than comparing cause X to effect X and cause Y to effect Y.

FB poster M: According to the verses, it should be:

Different things, myths, unending genealogies ------> questionings
Healthy teaching ------> God’s economy

sheeple 9: It should be "God's Economy vs Questionings" or "Healthy Teaching vs Different Teachings"

FB poster M: Witness Lee taught (his definition of) God’s economy, over, and over, and over, and over again. He put many interpretations and stories through his lens of God’s economy. But the Bible doesn’t say to do that.

FB poster M: The Bible says to teach the healthy things, and that teaching and those healthy things will PRODUCE God’s economy.

FB poster M: By teaching God’s economy, it means LSM LCs are missing the mark of focusing on teaching the healthy things which result in God’s economy.

sheepless : Oh NO … ! The outline header for I Timothy 1: 3-4 - “God’s Economy versus Different Teachings” is misleading?

sheepless : It’s M I S L E A D I N G !!!!!

sheeple 9: The co-workers have missed the mark ? ... ...
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:01 AM   #35
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There's no denying that that the Greek word oikonomia was the source of our word economy. But personally, the word "economy" never quite caught on with me. Some here in Scottsdale use it, but I prefer administration or edifying/building up. Dispensing and stewardship aren't bad either. At least for me . . . Jus sayin
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:17 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
There's no denying that that the Greek word oikonomia was the source of our word economy. But personally, the word "economy" never quite caught on with me. Some here in Scottsdale use it, but I prefer administration or edifying/building up. Dispensing and stewardship aren't bad either. At least for me . . . Jus sayin
I agree with you about the English word economy making it hard to understand were oikonomia is used in the New Testament because our common use of economy refers to something other than a household matter as the Greek word which means house law, and its useage had more to do with servants serving their master faithfully. Therefore I prefer the word stewardship. I’ve reviewed every New Testament use of oikonomia and if consistently translated to stewardship, it greatly improved ease of understanding the whole sentence each time.
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Old Yesterday, 10:29 PM   #37
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LSM self-claimed self-delegated "Deputy Authority"

LSM co-workers : God’s intention to delegate authority to human beings is evident from Genesis 1:26

LSM co-workers : There God created man in His image and with His likeness and gave him dominion over the earth and all the things in it. This demonstrates a basic principle that God intends to exercise authority through men who express Him.

Max S on FB : …..uh……I am afraid the co-workers confuse two very different things: humans and animals.

Max S on FB : Genesis 1:26 says “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”

Max S on FB : This is very, very clearly man being given authority over the ANIMALS – fish, birds, cattle, reptiles – and over the earth itself.

Max S on FB : If the co-workers want to dabble in animal husbandry because of this verse, I don’t think they would get much opposition (unless they try to pass themselves off as the Animal Husbandmen of the Age)

sheepless ABCZ : ...AH!....ahahahahahaha .... FUNNY!

Max S on FB : This is still not an authority to be scorned and is a great and humbling responsibility.

sheepless ABCZ : ...AH!....ahahahahahaha ....

sheepless AXYZ : still … no no … LSM co-workers do not have Deputy Authority over the animals at all! Their mota said himself cannot even control a mosquito …

Max S on FB : Genesis 1:26 has nothing to do with God granting deputy authority to people to be over other people, or to represent God to other people.

sheepless AXYZ : AHhhhh … LSM co-workers do not claim authority over ‘other people’. They only control their One Publication buyers. If you don’t buy from them, they cannot control you …

Max S on FB : I think we can all grant that Genesis 1:26 shows an amount of delegated authority through men, but the exercise of that authority is over animals, and does not support the LSM local church “deputy authority” of humans being the acting God over other humans.

Max S on FB : This leap would be akin to saying that because God made someone a farmer, this means He meant them to be President of the United States.

What about farmers in Canada and Mexico ?
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Old Today, 01:36 AM   #38
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Max S on FB : This leap would be akin to saying that because God made someone a farmer, this means He meant them to be President of the United States.

What about farmers in Canada and Mexico ?

I guess that leap would be akin to saying God meant them to be Prime Minister or Presidente?
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Old Today, 01:57 AM   #39
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I guess that leap would be akin to saying God meant them to be Prime Minister or Presidente?
haha
According to the order of LSM "Deputy Authority" power structure.

I appreciate Max S posts. Very helpful.
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