可以有中文版的嗎？(Translated into English)

這裡提出的問題，很多華語聖徒根本不知道。John Ingalls 曾經教過我，我都不知道他離開LSM了。LC的教導方式的確和JW,Mormons 很像，可是問題是華語聖徒不知道，似乎也無從知道，似乎也不會提出問題，就是上頭怎麼說，底下就怎麼做。非 常希望能有中文版面，讓華語聖徒也知道真相。謝謝。

As translated through Google:

"Many Chinese-speaking saints do not know the question raised here. John Ingalls taught me once, and I don't even know he left LSM. The teaching method of LC is indeed similar to that of JW and Mormons, but the problem is that the Chinese-speaking saints don’t know, they don’t seem to know, and they don’t seem to ask questions, just what they say at the top, and do what at the bottom. I very much hope that there will be a Chinese page so that Chinese-speaking saints can also know the truth. Thank you."

[Trapped]

Is there anyone who knows Chinese well enough to tell us if the Google translate is an accurate rendition of what was posted?

Chinese-speaking saints make up a respectable portion of the LC as a whole, and it's true.....if there was some good, solid, condensed posts and information that could be translated into Chinese, that would be valuable. What I mean is kind of like hitting the basics of the issues of the LC - the errors of deputy authority, of the ground of locality, of mind and behavior control, of tactics used by abusive leaders and matching those tactics right up with the well-known cliches sprinkled throughout the LC, and numerous other issues. If they could be written from the perspective of someone who knows Chinese culture, that may go a long way.

我在地方教會聚會，聖徒們彼此相愛，這點很好，但是我知道地方教會的真理教導是有問題的。但是多數聖徒因為 接受信息、教導，從來不質疑，或許有疑問也不敢提出，怕被冠上“搞破壞”的帽子。我參加聚會，聽長老們、聖 徒們的申言，有些是我會以“阿們”回應，有些我就抱持沉默，因為我知道那些內容是錯的。我也不覺得長老們教 導的真理是“高峰真理”。我常常問自己，該繼續留在地方教會聚會嗎？我知道我留下是因為聖徒們之間的彼此相 愛，忠心服事主，不是因為長老們常說的“我們有高峰真理”。

As Translated Through Google

"I meet in the Local Church and the saints love each other, which is good, but I know that the truth teaching of the Local Church is problematic. However, most saints have never questioned because they receive information and teachings, and perhaps they dare not raise questions, for fear of being labeled as 'destroying'. I attended the meeting and listened to the prophecies of the elders and saints. For some, I would respond with 'Amen', and for some, I kept silent because I knew the content was wrong. I also don't think the truth taught by the elders is the 'high peak truth'. I often ask myself, should I continue to meet in the Local Church? I know that I stayed because the saints love each other and serve the Lord faithfully, not because the elders often say 'We have the highest truth'."

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

我在地方教會聚會，聖徒們彼此相愛，這點很好，但是我知道地方教會的真理教導是有問題的。但是多數聖徒因為 接受信息、教導，從來不質疑，或許有疑問也不敢提出，怕被冠上“搞破壞”的帽子。我參加聚會，聽長老們、聖 徒們的申言，有些是我會以“阿們”回應，有些我就抱持沉默，因為我知道那些內容是錯的。我也不覺得長老們教 導的真理是“高峰真理”。我常常問自己，該繼續留在地方教會聚會嗎？我知道我留下是因為聖徒們之間的彼此相 愛，忠心服事主，不是因為長老們常說的“我們有高峰真理”。

As Translated Through Google

"I meet in the Local Church and the saints love each other, which is good, but I know that the truth teaching of the Local Church is problematic. However, most saints have never questioned because they receive information and teachings, and perhaps they dare not raise questions, for fear of being labeled as 'destroying'. I attended the meeting and listened to the prophecies of the elders and saints. For some, I would respond with 'Amen', and for some, I kept silent because I knew the content was wrong. I also don't think the truth taught by the elders is the 'high peak truth'. I often ask myself, should I continue to meet in the Local Church? I know that I stayed because the saints love each other and serve the Lord faithfully, not because the elders often say 'We have the highest truth'."

Hopefully there is an English-to-Chinese Google translate option......

It is true that the saints love each other, but it's a conditional love based on your being a member in their group. The love ends, and ends harshly, when you walk out the doors. The Bible speaks negatively of this kind of love.

Luke 6:32, 35
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.
35 But love your enemies, do good to them...

The local churches as a group neither love their enemies nor do good to them. They make everyone their enemy and then sue them.

Your words "dare not raise questions" and "for fear of being labeled" are two gigantic red flags of unhealthy, aberrant "Christian" groups. This atmosphere is not what God sent His Son to die for.

The social connections in the local church are the hardest thing to lose if you decide not to meet, but to me, if you know what is being taught is not according to the truth, and if you know the attitude and arrogance against other Christians is wrong, and if you are already speaking of an atmosphere of fear.....too many bad things start to pile up and it becomes time to go. The local churches will not change without God Himself intervening. It's up to the individual to take steps for the health of their own lives.

I usually try to just speak negatively of the elders/co-workers who propagate the unsound doctrine or of the general milieu of the local churches as a whole, and leave the saints in general alone, but even to say the saints "serve the Lord faithfully" now hits me as not totally true anymore either. They serve "a vision", they serve "the ministry", they serve "God's economy" (which isn't Biblical the way Lee taught it), and they serve "the Lord's Recovery".

But none of those things are the living God. None of them.

I know God sees their hearts and some of them are truly deceived and genuinely think they are serving the Lord, and the judgment for that is 100% in His hands, but I can't help but be reminded of the elitist, "we are the genuine church and no one else is", "WE have the high peaks", "WE are in the center of God's move"......and question what god they are serving.

They use the gospel to snare people, and then use "openness to Witness Lee's ministry" as the test for whether to keep people. It's sick.

Originally Posted by Trapped

Hopefully there is an English-to-Chinese Google translate option......

It is true that the saints love each other, but it's a conditional love based on your being a member in their group. The love ends, and ends harshly, when you walk out the doors. The Bible speaks negatively of this kind of love.

的確聖徒們之間彼此相愛，但這是有條件的愛，是基於你是他們中閒的一份子。 這個愛的結束，而且是殘酷地結束就是當你離開教會大門時。 聖經明確否定這樣的愛。

Luke 6:32, 35 路加福音6:32，35
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.
35 But love your enemies, do good to them...

The local churches as a group neither love their enemies nor do good to them. They make everyone their enemy and then sue them.

地方教會作為一個整體，既不愛它們的仇敵也不善待他們。 他們使所有人成為他們的仇敵，然後對他們起訴。

Your words "dare not raise questions" and "for fear of being labeled" are two gigantic red flags of unhealthy, aberrant "Christian" groups. This atmosphere is not what God sent His Son to die for.

你所說的“不敢提出質疑”和“怕被冠上帽子”是兩大不健康的危險信號，是異常的“基督徒”團體 。 這種氛圍不是神差祂的兒子為之死的。

The social connections in the local church are the hardest thing to lose if you decide not to meet, but to me, if you know what is being taught is not according to the truth, and if you know the attitude and arrogance against other Christians is wrong, and if you are already speaking of an atmosphere of fear.....too many bad things start to pile up and it becomes time to go. The local churches will not change without God Himself intervening. It's up to the individual to take steps for the health of their own lives.

如果你決定不再一起聚會，那麽地方教會的社交關係將是最害怕失去的。但對我來說，如果你知道所傳講的不是根 據真理，並且你知道對其他基督徒的傲慢態度是錯的，而且你也提到令人畏懼的氣氛.....許多的壞事開始堆 積起來，這就是離開的時候了。 沒有神親自干預，所有地方教會將不會改變。 取決于個人為自己生命的健康采取措施步驟。

I usually try to just speak negatively of the elders/co-workers who propagate the unsound doctrine or of the general milieu of the local churches as a whole, and leave the saints in general alone, but even to say the saints "serve the Lord faithfully" now hits me as not totally true anymore either. They serve "a vision", they serve "the ministry", they serve "God's economy" (which isn't Biblical the way Lee taught it), and they serve "the Lord's Recovery".

我通常試圖只對那些長老/同工們宣揚不合理的教義或整個地方教會整體環境持否定的態度，而對平聖徒們不做可否。若即使說聖徒們“忠心 地事奉服事神” 現在也告訴我那也不再有它的完全正確性。 他們服事“異象”，他們服事“事工”，他們服事“神的經論”（李傳授的方法不是屬聖經的），還有他們服事“ 主的恢復”。

But none of those things are the living God. None of them.

但是這些都不是永生的神。 沒有一個是。

I know God sees their hearts and some of them are truly deceived and genuinely think they are serving the Lord, and the judgment for that is 100% in His hands, but I can't help but be reminded of the elitist, "we are the genuine church and no one else is", "WE have the high peaks", "WE are in the center of God's move"......and question what god they are serving.

我知道神看他們的內心，其中一些人也是真的受騙並誠懇地認為他們正在事奉服事主，而審判是100％掌握在祂 手中，但我禁不住被這些精英主義者們提醒，“我們是純正的教會，沒有其他的了”。“我們有高峰“，"我們處 在神行動的中心”……就請問他們事奉什麽樣的神。

They use the gospel to snare people, and then use "openness to Witness Lee's ministry" as the test for whether to keep people. It's sick.

他們用神的福音來圈套人，然後用“對李常受執事的敞開”作為是否留住此人的考驗。
令人作嘔.

Originally Posted by Trapped

Is there anyone who knows Chinese well enough to tell us if the Google translate is an accurate rendition of what was posted?

Chinese-speaking saints make up a respectable portion of the LC as a whole, and it's true.....if there was some good, solid, condensed posts and information that could be translated into Chinese, that would be valuable. What I mean is kind of like hitting the basics of the issues of the LC - the errors of deputy authority, of the ground of locality, of mind and behavior control, of tactics used by abusive leaders and matching those tactics right up with the well-known cliches sprinkled throughout the LC, and numerous other issues. If they could be written from the perspective of someone who knows Chinese culture, that may go a long way.

FYI.............Just used the google translate as a first cut for your post then modified it to sound like a native speaker.

[UntoHim]

Moderator Note:

The Chinese published under each of Trapped's excerpts is not an answer or reaction to what Trapped has posted, rather it is a translation from English into Chinese.

[Trapped]

Thanks, unregistered with two question marks, for taking the time to Google translate and refine what I wrote, and thanks UntoHim for explaining what was happening!

I speak mandarin. The translation from Chinese to English is surprisingly very accurate. it may have been edited, or may not. English to Chinese is also fairly accurate.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I speak mandarin. The translation from Chinese to English is surprisingly very accurate. it may have been edited, or may not. English to Chinese is also fairly accurate.

I appreciate very much the response from Br trapped to a Chinese sister in TWN.

My take on google translation--
'google translate' did not translate the bible verse posted by trapped in LK 6:35 enemies/ 仇敵(correct one) vs 敵人. In addition, google translate is not able to translate Christianity terminology such as 'serve' 服務 (google) vs 服侍(Christianity).

One will get a gist from an AI for sure.

這個帖子是我發的。我發現了一個網站，論述了Local Church，我讀了，算是相當平和的論述，好壞優劣可以提供給讀者判斷。是中文的，有利於中文聖徒閱讀。

http://ccn.fhl.net/editorial/LC.htm

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

這個帖子是我發的。我發現了一個網站，論述了Local Church，我讀了，算是相當平和的論述，好壞優劣可以提供給讀者判斷。是中文的，有利於中文聖徒閱讀。

http://ccn.fhl.net/editorial/LC.htm

Google Chinese-to-English translation says the Chinese post above says this:

"I made this post. I found a website that talked about Local Church. I read it. It was a fairly peaceful discussion. The readers can judge whether it is good or bad. It is in Chinese, which is good for Chinese saints to read."