Sad Funny Ridiculous

[A2Z]

The matter of COVERING in LSM churches

Sheeple 1: son, MOTA taught us that we should cover our spiritual father when he is drunken with wine and naked.

Sheeple 2: father, I hear the top sheeeps sounding an urgent message to me. Their words say "We are your fathers, we looove YOU, WE COVERRR!!! YOU."

Sheeple 2: how many fathers do I have? Why are they covering me?

Sheeple 1: so that you don't see them naked. The LSM covering is so versatile they can cover you so that you are covering them. Heed their message, lest they cover the DNA father away from the DNA son.

LSM brand covering, versatility to impress.
Ooops. Oppress.

[A2Z]

LSM vision of God created man

Sheeple27 : Wao! I've never seen it this way.

Sheeple4 : what?

Sheeple27 : RK in 2018 conference said: the verb 'form' as in Genesis God formed man is 'a potter making a vessel'. He said look into a full length mirror and admit it, everyone of us looks like a bottle. He said man is a bottle with an opening at the top!

Sheeple4: Ah ha! But wait ... let me think about it...why is RK a bottle with an opening at the top as well as with an opening at the bottom? Is it because only he has authority to go to toilet?

correction: authority should be 'delegated authority'.
-

[Cal]

Originally Posted by A2Z

correction: authority should be 'delegated authority'.

I thought about this. "Deputy authority" should be, at best, "delegated authority."

So why don't they use the correct phrase? Because "deputy" sounds more impressive. It makes the "authorities" seem more like big shots. And the LR leaders looove to be big shots.

Here's a Blended Brother unleashing his awesome deputy authority. But sure to tremble as he speaks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1bOo9LsfXY

[A2Z]

Listening to RK speaking, he only hinted he and top blendeds are 'delegated authority'. Deputy Authority is still WL.

[Sons to Glory!]

Cal - He's got the right haircut. Does Barney also have an elder bag!?

And does this remind you of any one?: Barney recits the Preamble to US Constitution

[A2Z]

There is a website "https://shepherdingwords.com/"

Top Sheeeps: Let’s have a genuine fellowship to quash your concerns over the alleged abuse of authority.

Top Sheeeps: Spiritual Authority, a book translated and published by Stephen Kaung, became popular among Western believers in the early 1970s. Since then it has been misused by some to assert themselves as authorities and criticized by others who blame it for such abuse. Both the misuse and the criticism miss the mark.

sheeples: We don’t know this book that was published in the early 70s. Some of us are not even born yet. We were told to only read LSM published books. We know only ONE publication and our elders have signed us off to be life-long customers of this one publication goods.

sheeples: We are concerned that there is abuse of power of authority in our congregation.

Top Sheeeps: This mess of some having misused Kaung’s book to assert themselves as authorities and others have criticised them, blaming the book for such abuse, is ALL there is concerning the abuse of authority.

Top Sheeeps: Both the misuse and the criticism miss the mark. After the break we’ll tell you about missing the mark.

sheeples: - - - - -

[Ohio]

Thanks A2Z, it now makes so much sense.

[A2Z]

Someone on this forum once posted something Stepehen Kaung said about the church in New York.
How to find this information?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by A2Z

Someone on this forum once posted something Stepehen Kaung said about the church in New York.
How to find this information?

Steve Isitt has written and compiled many articles on LC history.

Here is one paper that addresses Stephen Kaung.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Steve Isitt has written and compiled many articles on LC history.

Here is one paper that addresses Stephen Kaung.

Isn't Stephen Kaung Lee lite? Minus the ground. Lee went with dirt, and Kaung went with Sparks : the ground is Christ. But otherwise, both are Nee copycats?

Either way, it's Neeism, or Nee worship ... as in : Only ... Nee was the only and real minister of this age. They all push Christ to do it.

Still, Kaung is better than Lee. Kaung is humble (not I but Christ) ... and Lee? Well read the 1988 conference thread. Plus, he's joined the maggots.

Isa_14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your covers.

And Nee? Wasn't he worse than King David, in his private life? and more like Solomon ... or was that Lee's sons? Also Neeites ... but the private Nee ... that all the Lee's knew about ; the great Lee Nee cover up.

Sad Funny Ridiculous

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

And Nee? Wasn't he worse than King David, in his private life?

Yes, but God said several times that David didn't sin - because he was faithful to the Lord and didn't pursue idols!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yes, but God said several times that David didn't sin - because he was faithful to the Lord and didn't pursue idols!

But David still had to pay the price : lost a son, daughter Tamar raped, the sword would never leave his house, and, "Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.'"-2 Samuel 12:10-12

And Nee went to prison.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by Cal

I thought about this. "Deputy authority" should be, at best, "delegated authority."

So why don't they use the correct phrase? Because "deputy" sounds more impressive. It makes the "authorities" seem more like big shots. And the LR leaders looove to be big shots.

Here's a Blended Brother unleashing his awesome deputy authority. But sure to tremble as he speaks!

The original Chinese word is 代表权威, which literal translation is "delegated authority". I guess the guy who translated Watchman Nee's works mis-translated this Chinese word into "deputy authority", resulting in confusion.


Um...wait... he would have been correct... in his foresight...

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Gubei

The original Chinese word is 代表权威, which literal translation is "delegated authority". I guess the guy who translated Watchman Nee's works mis-translated this Chinese word into "deputy authority", resulting in confusion.


Um...wait... he would have been correct... in his foresight...

Delegated or deputy, both end in authority. The doctrine, no matter how framed, gave God's authority to a man ... in this case Lee, and previously, to Nee ... and now, I guess, to the Blended's.

[Bubbles!]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Cal - He's got the right haircut. Does Barney also have an elder bag!?

And does this remind you of any one?: Barney recits the Preamble to US Constitution

Yes, our deputy authority has one of the old model ''elder bags.'' I think that LSM bookstores used to sell that one as ''the John Engles bag.'' They dropped that name, for some reason.
The last time I went to an LC meeting, a lot of people had back packs. It kind of seems like the old elder bags are no longer ''in.''

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Bubbles!

Yes, our deputy authority has one of the old model ''elder bags.'' I think that LSM bookstores used to sell that one as ''the John Engles bag.'' They dropped that name, for some reason.
The last time I went to an LC meeting, a lot of people had back packs. It kind of seems like the old elder bags are no longer ''in.''

So does that mean wing-tips are out too?

[OBW]

Back in the 70s, it was "white shirt, skinny tie, briefcase, and wingtip shoes."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

Back in the 70s, it was "white shirt, skinny tie, briefcase, and wingtip shoes."

And it fit the IBM dress code, except skinny tie was considered outdated. And other field tech's made fun of it when we met for lunch, or breakfast.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by awareness

And it fit the IBM dress code, except skinny tie was considered outdated. And other field tech's made fun of it when we met for lunch, or breakfast.

Even without the LC, Christianity has often managed to be out-of-sync with the society around it. Now I realize that we are not to be part of the world, but to the extent that it is not a truly spiritual issue, we have tended to stay a generation behind. Preach against whatever is modern, then adopt it once it is yesterday’s news.

And the elder/leading one’s attire was a pretty good example of just that. Trying to be different just because it seems spiritual.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

Back in the 70s, it was "white shirt, skinny tie, briefcase, and wingtip shoes."

Are you sure they weren't MIB (Men in Black)?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

Even without the LC, Christianity has often managed to be out-of-sync with the society around it. Now I realize that we are not to be part of the world, but to the extent that it is not a truly spiritual issue, we have tended to stay a generation behind. Preach against whatever is modern, then adopt it once it is yesterday’s news.

This is true for the Southern Baptist Convention, concerning blacks and women, and the Mormon church as well.

And I think the RCC is about to keep up with LGBTQ, by allowing gay priests that aren't pedophiles. But still holding to celibacy, infallibility of the pope, and transubstantiation.

[countmeworthy]

I wasn't sure where to post this commentary noted on the right side of the forum so I picked this one.

From Watchman Nee:

Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough. Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet. Therefore, they have not overcome. If they committed more sins, it would be easier for them to overcome. If they saw the corruption of the flesh, it would be easier for them to overcome.------->The Overcoming Life

Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough.???? Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet.????

Well. That explains how they 'justified' their sins of fornication, adultery, their hypocracy (especially Lee's)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I wasn't sure where to post this commentary noted on the right side of the forum so I picked this one.

From Watchman Nee:


Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough.???? Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet.????

I suppose that's why Nee was racking up sins in his private life. To be an overcomer.

[A2Z]

Cont. from post #6
There is a website "https://shepherdingwords.com/"

Top Sheeeps: Living Stream Ministry translated messages given by Watchman Nee and published in English under the title ‘Authority and Submission’.

Top Sheeeps: This title reflects the book’s dual emphasis. Authority is first. Submission is second.

sheeples: -----------

Top Sheeeps: Kaung’s book ‘Spiritual Authority’ missed the mark. He only has ‘authority’ but no ‘submission’!

sheeples: We are not talking about people that we don’t know at all. It is not about book titles. Abuses in our LSM local churches make us question the MOTA high peak ‘revelations’.

Top Sheeeps: But YES! This is exactly the answer to your questions! You don’t know them but we are telling you they are the ones to blame. Don’t ever think that we have abused authority. We have the mark. We have SUBMISSION! They missed the mark.

Top Sheeeps: We are the God-d-dained authority, we first, then secondly is you. We do not miss the mark because we've put you right on the mark of submission. Look at yourselves. What a beautiful sight!

Top Sheeeps: YOU are the submission! By your submission to us, you are proof that there is no abuse of authority in our unique body. You are put right on the mark! If you miss the mark of submission, you abused authority. We’ll call on a hole to open up and swallow you …

sheeples: … eh? …. what is what co-workers of North America said of what BBs said of what MOTA said of what WN said of ....

sheeples: what does Jesus say?

sheeples: God in these last days spoke to us by his Son


apostle Paul: II Corinthians 10: 8
For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
-

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I wasn't sure where to post this commentary noted on the right side of the forum so I picked this one.

From Watchman Nee:
Many Christians do not overcome because they have not failed enough.???? Many Christians have not committed enough sins yet.????

Well. That explains how they 'justified' their sins of fornication, adultery, their hypocrisy (especially Lee's)

Yes, I saw that too and wondered if there shouldn't be some commentary! Paul asks the question in Romans 6:1 - "Should we sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who have died to sin continue to live in it?"

But to be fair, what was Nee's intention in saying this? Let me take a stab at it. The flesh will always be the flesh and will not get any better, and God has left us with it for a purpose. But, even after all these years, we still try to do things out of the flesh. Why? Because perhaps we haven't fully seen the complete futility of our flesh and how bad it really is! In my two weekly men's fellowships we have a lot of discussion about the flesh, and recently we've had talk about how our flesh actually seems to be getting worse. This thought seems to have backing in scripture as Ephesians 4:22 says the flesh is being corrupted. But until we realize that the flesh is really evil and against God, we might not be as motivated to walk in spirit. (or, some might say that as we go on we just see the sinfulness of the flesh more clearly . . .)

We know that God often has to bring us to the very bottom, usually with much failure, before we can surrender and give ourselves fully to him. Is this what Nee is trying to say?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

The flesh will always be the flesh and will not get any better, and God has left us with it for a purpose. But, even after all these years, we still try to do things out of the flesh. Why? Because perhaps we haven't fully seen the complete futility of our flesh and how bad it really is!

The flesh is our biggest problem. It places undeniable demands on us all day long, and even into the night. Just feeding and hydrating the flesh is a constant concern. I hate the flesh, with all it's demands, but that doesn't stop me taking care of all the demands of the flesh all the time.

Is it any wonder that we hate the flesh?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

The flesh is our biggest problem. It places undeniable demands on us all day long, and even into the night. Just feeding and hydrating the flesh is a constant concern. I hate the flesh, with all it's demands, but that doesn't stop me taking care of all the demands of the flesh all the time.

Is it any wonder that we hate the flesh?

I mentioned that we've had a good deal of discussion around the flesh in my men's fellowships. Last week someone shared this thought (they said it had been around awhile): "When I'm going up to meet the Lord and my flesh is falling away . . . as it sinks out of sight I will speak to it and say, 'Thanks for escorting me to Christ all these years!'" So maybe we can say it's kind of a love/hate thing we have with the flesh!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yes, I saw that too and wondered if there shouldn't be some commentary! Paul asks the question in Romans 6:1 - "Should we sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who have died to sin continue to live in it?"

But to be fair, what was Nee's intention in saying this?
We know that God often has to bring us to the very bottom, usually with much failure, before we can surrender and give ourselves fully to him. Is this what Nee is trying to say?

I thought of Romans 6 too. I also wonder if there was more to this commentary by Nee but was cut short...perhaps I jumped the gun. However, Nee and Lee's spiritual reputation has become very questionable in recent years..especially Lee's.

What I know and have experienced myself is if we continuously sin, knowingly or not and we are GOD'S, we will hit rock bottom. But through the Mercy and Grace of God, He will shine shine His Light on our darkness, we will repent, we will completely surrender and give ourselves fully to Christ and seek Him deeply until God calls us home.

In addition to our confession, He restores our inner peace and gives Joy unspeakable. HE HEALS our spiritual and emotional wounds. He is faithful to supply all our earthly needs. He makes all things new. He will never leave us or forsake us. He renews our mind in Christ Jesus. He transforms us. He sanctifies us. His Goodness and Mercy follows us all the days of our lives.

And if continuously grab hold and apply His Cleansing Blood, Jesus will keep us from sinning. He will protect us from the evil one. He will strengthen our spirit and soul..even our mortal body although this one seems to be more slow going. {sigh}

THIS IS A FACT! God keeps His Word.
Glory to His Holy and Blessed Name.

[Bubbles!]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So does that mean wing-tips are out too?

Wing tips are NEVER out!

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Bubbles!

Wing tips are NEVER out!

Hey, I have a pair of smooth cordoba ones that I wear whenever I want to look conservative chic (at least in my own mind . . .)!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Bubbles!

Wing tips are NEVER out!

I know. That's what Jesus wore.

[A2Z]

Recovery

Sheeple 19: why has Hank Hanegraaff chrismationed into the Eastern Orthodox Church?

sheeple 20: is it a deeper recovery of ‘becoming god’?

sheeple 21: church father Athanasius who gave us the theology of ‘For the Son of God became man so that we might become God’ is of the Eastern Orthodox

sheeple 22: eh … but more than a century earlier St.Irenaeus of the Roman Catholic said ‘God had become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.’

Sheeple 20: hmmm … the recovery is not deep enough …

[A2Z]

Concerning Teaching

LSM Co-workers: In 1 Timothy 1:3-4 Paul told his co-worker Timothy to charge some in Ephesus not to teach things other than God’s economy.

FB poster M: Is this what those verses say?

I Timothy 1:3-4 : Even as I exhorted you, when I was going into Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus in order that you might charge certain ones not to teach different things nor to give heed to myths and unending genealogies, which produce questionings rather than God's economy, which is in faith.

FB poster M: The verse says that teaching “different things” produces questionings rather than producing God’s economy.

FB poster M: So it’s actually the teaching of the correct, accurate, healthy things which produces God’s economy. It doesn’t say to teach God’s economy.

sheeple 9: It says 'to teach the healthy things so that God’s economy is produced'.

sheeples : So…o… what actually is ‘God’s economy’?

sheeple 9: It is the result of teaching healthy teaching (sound doctrine).

FB poster M: Healthy teaching is ‘according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God’ (I Timothy 1: 11).

FB poster M: The gospel is ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners’ (I Timothy 1: 15); ‘believe on Him unto eternal life’ (I Timothy 1: 16)

Teaching things different from healthy teaching and giving heed to myths and unending genealogies, would produce questionings rather than …
ReV: God’s economy, which is in faith
KJV: godly edifying which is in faith
NIV: advancing God's work--which is by faith
NLT: live a life of faith in God
ESV: the stewardship from God that is by faith
WNT: true stewardship for God, which only exists where there is faith

sheepless: So…o …, ‘God’s economy’ is not a teaching. That’s sooo sad!

SAD.

[A2Z]

Concerning Teaching

FB poster M: The Recovery Version outline section header for these verses (I Timothy 1: 3-4) says “God’s Economy versus Different Teachings”.

FB poster M: This is comparing cause X to effect Y, rather than comparing cause X to effect X and cause Y to effect Y.

FB poster M: According to the verses, it should be:

Different things, myths, unending genealogies ------> questionings
Healthy teaching ------> God’s economy

sheeple 9: It should be "God's Economy vs Questionings" or "Healthy Teaching vs Different Teachings"

FB poster M: Witness Lee taught (his definition of) God’s economy, over, and over, and over, and over again. He put many interpretations and stories through his lens of God’s economy. But the Bible doesn’t say to do that.

FB poster M: The Bible says to teach the healthy things, and that teaching and those healthy things will PRODUCE God’s economy.

FB poster M: By teaching God’s economy, it means LSM LCs are missing the mark of focusing on teaching the healthy things which result in God’s economy.

sheepless : Oh NO … ! The outline header for I Timothy 1: 3-4 - “God’s Economy versus Different Teachings” is misleading?

sheepless : It’s M I S L E A D I N G !!!!!

sheeple 9: The co-workers have missed the mark ? ... ...

[Sons to Glory!]

There's no denying that that the Greek word oikonomia was the source of our word economy. But personally, the word "economy" never quite caught on with me. Some here in Scottsdale use it, but I prefer administration or edifying/building up. Dispensing and stewardship aren't bad either. At least for me . . . Jus sayin

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

There's no denying that that the Greek word oikonomia was the source of our word economy. But personally, the word "economy" never quite caught on with me. Some here in Scottsdale use it, but I prefer administration or edifying/building up. Dispensing and stewardship aren't bad either. At least for me . . . Jus sayin

I agree with you about the English word economy making it hard to understand were oikonomia is used in the New Testament because our common use of economy refers to something other than a household matter as the Greek word which means house law, and its useage had more to do with servants serving their master faithfully. Therefore I prefer the word stewardship. I’ve reviewed every New Testament use of oikonomia and if consistently translated to stewardship, it greatly improved ease of understanding the whole sentence each time.

[A2Z]

LSM self-claimed self-delegated "Deputy Authority"

LSM co-workers : God’s intention to delegate authority to human beings is evident from Genesis 1:26

LSM co-workers : There God created man in His image and with His likeness and gave him dominion over the earth and all the things in it. This demonstrates a basic principle that God intends to exercise authority through men who express Him.

Max S on FB : …..uh……I am afraid the co-workers confuse two very different things: humans and animals.

Max S on FB : Genesis 1:26 says “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”

Max S on FB : This is very, very clearly man being given authority over the ANIMALS – fish, birds, cattle, reptiles – and over the earth itself.

Max S on FB : If the co-workers want to dabble in animal husbandry because of this verse, I don’t think they would get much opposition (unless they try to pass themselves off as the Animal Husbandmen of the Age)

sheepless ABCZ : ...AH!....ahahahahahaha .... FUNNY!

Max S on FB : This is still not an authority to be scorned and is a great and humbling responsibility.

sheepless ABCZ : ...AH!....ahahahahahaha ....

sheepless AXYZ : still … no no … LSM co-workers do not have Deputy Authority over the animals at all! Their mota said himself cannot even control a mosquito …

Max S on FB : Genesis 1:26 has nothing to do with God granting deputy authority to people to be over other people, or to represent God to other people.

sheepless AXYZ : AHhhhh … LSM co-workers do not claim authority over ‘other people’. They only control their One Publication buyers. If you don’t buy from them, they cannot control you …

Max S on FB : I think we can all grant that Genesis 1:26 shows an amount of delegated authority through men, but the exercise of that authority is over animals, and does not support the LSM local church “deputy authority” of humans being the acting God over other humans.

Max S on FB : This leap would be akin to saying that because God made someone a farmer, this means He meant them to be President of the United States.

What about farmers in Canada and Mexico ?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by A2Z

Max S on FB : This leap would be akin to saying that because God made someone a farmer, this means He meant them to be President of the United States.

What about farmers in Canada and Mexico ?

I guess that leap would be akin to saying God meant them to be Prime Minister or Presidente?

[A2Z]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I guess that leap would be akin to saying God meant them to be Prime Minister or Presidente?

haha
According to the order of LSM "Deputy Authority" power structure.

I appreciate Max S posts. Very helpful.

[A2Z]

The Shift to LSM dictated LCs

STG : What a system of error the LC has become. A remarkable contrast to the early 70s.

STG : In the early 70s the fresh and living experiences of Christ, and genuine fellowship there, were bountiful! It is obvious that the LC has now turned WL and his teachings into a bona fide cult figure, which has totally replaced Christ and the Anointing!

STG: So sad.



In the 70s The Stream publication editor was John Ingalls. Correct me if I’m wrong.
John Ingalls and one other together with WL prayed together in the beginning of WL’s work in the USA, and John Ingalls was the first editor of WL’s publications, and the compiler of the hymnal book, and one of the original translators of the Recovery version bible.

My opinion : The Lord delivered him away from involvement in the current Recovery version bible and the current WL publications.

The Stream was renamed to Living Stream Ministry.
Any clearer or detail input about The Stream publication?

My opinion : In the early days in the USA, The Stream was like publishing 'teachings that produce God's economy' as compared to the now LSM publishing 'teaching mota God's economy to produce a proprietary LSM dictated LCs body organisation'.

[A2Z]

Re: Recovery

sheep bca : recovery? Recovery? Church? church?
sheep tuv : Jesus said ‘I will build my church’. Jesus did not say ‘I will continue to recover my church’. Never mind ‘C’ or ‘c’.

sheep bca : recovery? Recovery? Adam? adam?
sheep opq : Jesus did not recover the first man Adam. Jesus was the last Adam who was crucified to death, and he resurrected and was made a quickening spirit. Doesn’t matter ‘A’ or ‘a’.

[A2Z]

Not sad funny ridiculous

Its beautiful, hopeful, love, light, and life.

This sentence in Curious' post at once filled my heart with light and love and filled my eyes with tears.

"What man intended for harm, God has used for good, to accomplish the saving of many lives’ genesis 50:20"

Genesis 50: 16-20
And they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying,
So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Shalom.

[JJ]

Agreed. Well said and encouraging Curious and A2Z

[A2Z]

LSM Blendeds cannot end derogatory Internet publications

sheeple 77 : after years of spending big monies and efforts to eliminate print publications that are negative to the LSM/Recovery organisation, LSM is now facing a new wave of derogatory publications on new media such as YouTube, websites, Wikis, Facebook, etc., supposing to ‘expose’ and/or ‘explain’ LSM/Recovery fallacies and cultish practices.

sheeple 88 : before they managed to suppress that few months old FB post while bullied the woman poster, they are now bombarded by more than 5 very recently created new media publications which are increasingly sharper and comprehensive in their unreserved criticisms …

Ah well …

A most recent response to Jo's post is the author of this website
http://thelordsrecovery.org/

sheeple 88 : before they can be certain that ‘their sense of a big release of advanced enjoyment in a few years time’ will ever happened, they are very certainly sensing the heat and pressure from more and more attacks on them, after years of ignoring persuading voices expressed from the conscience of their own members …

Sad. Very sad indeed.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by A2Z

LSM Blendeds cannot end derogatory Internet publications

sheeple 77 : after years of spending big monies and efforts to eliminate print publications that are negative to the LSM/Recovery organisation, LSM is now facing a new wave of derogatory publications on new media such as YouTube, websites, Wikis, Facebook, etc., supposing to ‘expose’ and/or ‘explain’ LSM/Recovery fallacies and cultish practices.

sheeple 88 : before they managed to suppress that few months old FB post while bullied the woman poster, they are now bombarded by more than 5 very recently created new media publications which are increasingly sharper and comprehensive in their unreserved criticisms …

Ah well …

A most recent response to Jo's post is the author of this website
http://thelordsrecovery.org/

sheeple 88 : before they can be certain that ‘their sense of a big release of advanced enjoyment in a few years time’ will ever happened, they are very certainly sensing the heat and pressure from more and more attacks on them, after years of ignoring persuading voices expressed from the conscience of their own members …

Sad. Very sad indeed.

Just about every attempt the LC makes to eliminate any "negative" publications, they end up compounding the problem and making it even worse for themselves. This will continue to happen.

[aron]

Originally Posted by A2Z

A most recent response to Jo's post is the author of this website
http://thelordsrecovery.org/

Thanks for linking this site A2Z.

I think that people who have been through the LC and recognize it now for what it is, and is doing to people, have an obligation to speak out, and it is encouraging to see them doing so.

When I say 'obligation' I'm thinking of this: if you know the bridge is out up ahead, shouldn't you put out a warning? If you don't warn others of known hazards, aren't you at least partly culpable in what happens next?

Originally Posted by A2Z

...before they managed to suppress that few months old FB post while bullied the woman poster, they are now bombarded by more than 5 very recently created new media publications which are increasingly sharper and comprehensive in their unreserved criticisms …

What are the very recently created new media publications that you referenced (apart from the one linked)?

(When I log on to comment I occasionally note the number currently logged in. Usually it's 70 to 100. It recently has doubled, and is now over 200 consistently. At this moment it's 273. Never seen it that high.)

[A2Z]

Hi aron

"What are the very recently created new media publications that you referenced (apart from the one linked)?"

There are sites I came across and read, but I intended not to link.

BTW, after reading thro again http://thelordsrecovery.org/
I realised a mention of a date, dated 2018. So this site might not be created after the Casteel case.

This A2Z thread is definitely a reaction to Greg and Jo Casteel's sufferings.
It was first stucked into the 'soapbox' corner, but Admin moved it.
May be it should live in 'soapbox' ...

This link below, ppl on this forum already familiar, it is recent as re:Casteel case

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2f...BIm2iFahxfe8Lw

Steve I. has newly created website; but then Steve is not 'new' voice ...



edit:

This link, I did not intend not to link, I suppose ppl on this forum already knew about it -

https://www.mylocalchurchexperience.com/

[aron]

Originally Posted by A2Z

This A2Z thread is definitely a reaction to Greg and Jo Casteel's sufferings. It was first stuck into the 'soapbox' corner, but Admin moved it. May be it should live in 'soapbox' ...

Everyone has a voice. It's encouraging to see more and more are exercising their God-given rights to speak up. Witness Lee nullified the functions of the saints by coercing them to say, "Amen, amen" even when his speaking was against common sense, against scripture, and against our conscience.

In my case, they told us to ignore the poor. I objected.

They exalted former women leaders and refused women to function today. I said, this is hypocrisy and inconsistency.

They rejected much of the Psalms as "fallen" and "natural" which is against the NT pattern of reception & practice. I say this has no basis.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by aron

They rejected much of the Psalms as "fallen" and "natural" which is against the NT pattern of reception & practice. I say this has no basis.

Tell me more about how they did that please.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Tell me more about how they did that please.

I started a thread on the 'apologetics' section called "The Psalms are the word of Christ". There are over 800 posts but if you read the first 35 or so, you'll get the idea. The Psalms were repeatedly cited in the NT as indicative of the experiences of Jesus. But unless forced by explicit citation, RecV footnotes stress the psalm-writers' sinful status as invalidating textual claims of fidelity and divine reward.

But I replied that the NT stresses Jesus' fidelity and the divine reward: "God has raised him from the dead and given him glory" - see Peter on Psalm 16, in Acts 3. The entire NT continues this. Paul called the Psalms the "word of Christ" and twice encouraged their singing, in Col. 3 and Eph. 5. But Lee panned this, and said we should instead sing verses from Colossians and Ephesians!

I found all this to be a remarkable deviation from the NT pattern.

[aron]

Originally Posted by A2Z

Steve I. has newly created website; but then Steve is not 'new' voice.

Steve was in a mtg where WL said that they should go and find out what had happened to the missing members.

Now, why did WL call for something so obviously disastrous? Had he repeated the stories of "rebellion" so much that he'd began to believe them himself? Or did he think no one would actually take him up on his request?

When Steve's local elders heard that he was going to quarantined brothers and getting their stories, they were aghast. No! He wasn't actually supposed to do that! Talk of open-ness, reconciliation were just lip service! Window dressing! Not to actually occur!

But now it was too late - a church member was engaged andfunctioning, and the die had been cast.

[A2Z]

untitled

Blended B-bp : sisters have no spiritual discernment, they are easy prey for Satan’s deception. Evil sisters' rebellion would not be tolerated …

Blended B-mc : rebellious sisters have to be punished …

Blended B-rk : rebellious leprous sisters know nothing better, only small girls, I step back for the ground to open a hole to swallow em …

Blended Bros : we are your fathers, we love you, we cover you …

CALIBER of LSM leaders.
DEMO of their blended oneness.



aron : I guess the sisters don't have any spiritual discernment, and no capacity for revelation, as long as they're not named Jean Guyon, Mary McDonough, Peace Wang, Ruth Lee, or Margaret Barber, or Jessie Penn-Lewis. If you go to LSM website they are selling books by these sisters.



Sisters labeled 'rebellous' by LSM leaders actually 'love their Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ'. They obeyed God, not men (specifically, self appointed deputy authority in the so called Recovery organisation)

-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Steve was in a mtg where WL said that they should go and find out what had happened to the missing members.

Now, why did WL call for something so obviously disastrous? Had he repeated the stories of "rebellion" so much that he'd began to believe them himself? Or did he think no one would actually take him up on his request?

When Steve's local elders heard that he was going to quarantined brothers and getting their stories, they were aghast. No! He wasn't actually supposed to do that! Talk of open-ness, reconciliation were just lip service! Window dressing! Not to actually occur!

But now it was too late - a church member was engaged andfunctioning, and the die had been cast.

So Steve Isitt's current mission was WL's idea in the first place?

Too funny. Can't make this stuff up, folks.

[JJ]

In the category of Sad:

The original version of The Recovery Version of the Bible listed John Ingalls, Bill Duane, Al Knoch, and Witness Lee as translators.

Today “The Editorial Section of The Living Stream Ministry (LSM) is given credit, and LSM maintains copyright.

There is no mention of the ugly so called “rebellion” against Lee when these co-translators confronted Lee about his son Phillip’s horrible behavior at LSM. That sad and horrible inconvenient truth has been expunged from the official LSM version of history about this translation.

But those of us who were in TLR, witnessed and lived through that time in TLR know better.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JJ

In the category of Sad:

The original version of The Recovery Version of the Bible listed John Ingalls, Bill Duane, Al Knoch, and Witness Lee as translators.

Today “The Editorial Section of The Living Stream Ministry (LSM) is given credit, and LSM maintains copyright.

There is no mention of the ugly so called “rebellion” against Lee when these co-translators confronted Lee about his son Phillip’s horrible behavior at LSM. That sad and horrible inconvenient truth has been expunged from the official LSM version of history about this translation.

But those of us who were in TLR, witnessed and lived through that time in TLR know better.

The translation by John Ingalls, Bill Duane, and Al Knoch was better than the present one.

[A2Z]

"worrying"

JJ on LCD : in chapter 7, Section 3 of Life Study of Revelation, WL stated “The churches, signified by the golden lamp stands are the testimony of Jesus (1:2, 9) in the divine nature, shining in the dark night locally, yet collectively.”

JJ on LCD : Rev 1:1-3 and 9; Rev 6:9 ; Rev 12:11,17; Rev 19:9-10; Rev 20:4; Rev 23:16; 1 John 4:14; Acts 4: 33

JJ on LCD : based on these verses I would say John’s definition of the testimony of Jesus was “the word of God that God had given Jesus to show him and his brothers concerning His son (Jesus, the resurrected one). They were to speak (and did) the word of God as His witnesses to men everywhere at whatever cost, even imprisonment and death.”

Ohio on LCD : Where is the verse that shows us that the testimony of Jesus is all the LCs in "proper" fellowship with a SoCal publishing house?

Ohio on LCD : I remember in the aftermath of the "Max" chaos, during the Timothy Training, that WL also used 2 Tim 1.8 to convince us that the LCs were the testimony of Jesus and he was today's Paul, the prisoner of the Lord. Because none of us knew the actual events surrounding Max, we believed his false narrative, and then WL's interpretation of scripture. That happened so often. Is that not always the case (in LSM LCs) when forced to choose one man over another, when neither is Jesus our Lord?

------------- worrying ------

[A2Z]

' kind words of advice '

Curious on LCD : I will also add the following to those leaving or recently left the LC:

* Most who have been damaged and wounded in their ‘personhood’s from within the LC need to withdraw and heal first. Let others shelter you while you take the time to heal and gain distance from the past. Let others speak up on your behalf till you feel you are ready. This forum is doing that for you, and others, God has organized this so your grievances have a voice. Don’t lash out in anger as they will have you then. Be aware of your emotional vulnerability, if you have been significantly hurt, (and you may not realise the full extent of that straight away).

* Then whenever you feel called and ready to speak out you will do so from a place of calm and strength and you’ll be able to continue to think clearly even under provocation. Those are the tests… and the biggest test: if you can feel Jesus’ shield between you and anyone attacking you with words or hooks that have had a debilitating effect on you in the past; that's a real big one.

* Give yourself time but also find ways to keep moving forward. It’s been a long journey for me, taken many years. Others may make it much faster but don’t feel under pressure to get there quickly…its a step by step journey.

Curious on LCD : That's my advice, for any to whom it may resonate.

---------- Kind words of advice ---------

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by A2Z

' kind words of advice '

Curious on LCD : I will also add the following to those leaving or recently left the LC:

* Most who have been damaged and wounded in their ‘personhood’s from within the LC need to withdraw and heal first. Let others shelter you while you take the time to heal and gain distance from the past. Let others speak up on your behalf till you feel you are ready. This forum is doing that for you, and others, God has organized this so your grievances have a voice. Don’t lash out in anger as they will have you then. Be aware of your emotional vulnerability, if you have been significantly hurt, (and you may not realise the full extent of that straight away).

This was my experience too. While I know God brought me to the LC in Berkeley back in the early 80s and then to the LCs in southern Ohio in the 80s, I know He also brought me out of the whole thing too. When I left Columbus in 1988 we stopped meeting with the LCs, because I got a job that transferred me to the middle of the California Mojave desert. There was a LC in Victorville CA then, about 90 miles away, but I had no heart to be with them. So from 1988 to 1998, I think I was being dried out (while mainly pursuing career). Eventually, at the end of that period, I was quite desperate and open to the idea that there was something of God outside of the LC. That's when He began to show me His love was the source of all He does.

So I don't know that He has to dry everyone out after an LC experience, but that's what He did with me!

[JJ]

I recall once Witness Lee made a comment while giving a so-called Life Study Message “We are God’s pets”.

Huh?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

This was my experience too. While I know God brought me to the LC in Berkeley back in the early 80s and then to the LCs in southern Ohio in the 80s, I know He also brought me out of the whole thing too. When I left Columbus in 1988 we stopped meeting with the LCs, because I got a job that transferred me to the middle of the California Mojave desert. There was a LC in Victorville CA then, about 90 miles away, but I had no heart to be with them. So from 1988 to 1998, I think I was being dried out (while mainly pursuing career). Eventually, at the end of that period, I was quite desperate and open to the idea that there was something of God outside of the LC. That's when He began to show me His love was the source of all He does.

So I don't know that He has to dry everyone out after an LC experience, but that's what He did with me!

Opps - correction on this - should read "God brought me to the LC in Berkeley back in the early 70s," not early 80s.

[JJ]

I’m don’t know how to draw digital cartoons, but I’m envisioning one emerging from the discussion we’ve been having about what contending for the faith is:

Saints from all over Christendom are gathered to contend in an athletic competition (say a soccer/futball game) and MOTA shows up in a knights costume ready to lance them.

[A2Z]

Haha. That's funny.

Remember there is a cartoon thread?
The stickmen ...

[JJ]

I remember seeing it, but am not finding it.

[UntoHim]

That would be the "MOTA" Comic Strip by Cal.

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...ead.php?t=5708
-
-

[A2Z]

Enquiry

This site, does anyone on this forum know anything about it?

https://artemisbelt.wordpress.com/ca...hurch-history/


---

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by A2Z

Enquiry

This site, does anyone on this forum know anything about it?

https://artemisbelt.wordpress.com/ca...hurch-history/


---

That's Steve Isitt's history of the LC.

[A2Z]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's Steve Isitt's history of the LC.

Ooh ... oh.... oooh...

ahhh!

Steve Isitt ... everywhere on the Internet LOL

No wonder he is RK's man of death ...

[A2Z]

Anyone knows?

Re: attachment pdf, pg. 21

Dan T : John So, John, you are a dangerous man.

John S : I beg your pardon. I didn’t come out for lunch or dinner with you to be accused like that.

John S : Would you mind explaining what you mean I’m a dangerous man.

Dan T : So many brothers talking to you all become basket cases.

John S : name one.

Dan T : Ken U and Ned N.

John S : They’re not basket cases. I just saw them a couple of weeks ago.

John S : Who else?

Dan T : No more.

John S : You said many.

John S : Well, aren’t you afraid to talk to me? You might become the third basket case.

John S : I think we better go home before you become a basket case.

Anyone knows?
Has Dan Towle became the third basket case?

[Ohio]

Apparently so.

But little information is available.

[OBW]

Sounds like a modern reenactment of the scene in Pride and Prejudice where Mr Collins (here played by Dan T) comes to gloat over the condition of his poor cousins after Lydia is found to have eloped with Mr Wickham without actually getting married. And here Elizabeth (played by John So — I guess no women available for the part) cautions Mr Collins that, as a clergyman, he should probably not be seen even in the vicinity of these women (my paraphrase of EB's words).

And fortunately for all involved, it worked! Mr Collins quickly left.

As for Dan T, he was a basket case before he ever met with John So. He was deep down in Lee's bushel basket of minions he could rely on.

[A2Z]

GUARANTINE

Millions in quarantine in C _ _ _ a.

Huh?

To combat coronavirus.

Why so many times of quanrantine in LRC (global LSM/LCs) ?

To combat viruses.

Ahhh .... to combat "rebellions" ....

Hmmm ....

Viruses, Rebellions, poisons, deaths, ....

An organisation plagued by viruses, rebellions, poisons, deaths, ... within itself!
An organisation in "lockdown" .... no bridge to other christianity ...

Ohhhhhhhhh .... what about UNIQUE, TOP, ULTIMATE, CONSUMMATE, PEAK, CRYSTALISED, DIGEST of the condensation Of The Age?

************
Repent.
Turn to Jesus. Look to Jesus Christ, Your Lord and Saviour.

Philippians 2
10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

************