The Worst Mouthful Ever

[Kevin]

The measurement of our knowing the Lord Jesus is Loving Him as the person whom we have not seen and this is beyond Theology.

You have lost this experience since you rebelled against the church and definitely caused you to be excommunicated from the unique fellowship of the Body of Christ. You are certainly fallen to the most sorrowful situation of losing the ground of oneness, since you were cast out from our midst. Your situation proves that the Lord is sovereign as the Head of the church miniaturized by the local churches as His Body

You are laid bare before God and thereby diagnosed polluted, infectious, gangrene, at an early stage. Thank the Lord as the unique administrator in the Throne subjecting you under our feet as those sitting with Him in His throne

The Lord saw you in your real situation as He walks in the midst of the Churches. He saw you how polluted you became that it even reaches to your heart as He search it and found no repentance at all but rather worsen your own situation of putting yourself into a curse.

Of being against the teaching in which you were taught. Wait the result of all these that you are doing. Think of the authority of the Church of what it can do for you.

You are are the one the what you called leper, sick with itchy ear and has became blind by your continuously defiled in an exposed, contaminated sphere explored by you out of curiosity and thereby suffering the consequence of acting like boasting of the little knowledge gained and assumed it to be great.

Frankly speaking, outside the Lord's Recovery all they can boast of, are nothing!!! We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store. And all theologians in the world are envy of it that's why many of them embraced the teaching as they got convinced while doing critical studies intensively, and you were very far compare to what you've done, you are doing, and what you will do

References you are using were obsoletes as to what authorities can recommend. Like for certain, The Recovery Version Bible is now considered Bibles for America. Nothing can hinder what the Lord is doing in His recovery today!!!

His will is done here on earth as it is in the Heavens through His builded Church in His unique Recovery and everything apart from it is mess, a heap of collapsed

What a shame to you!!! The person you are renouncing is attached to you bear witness livingly.

Your forum (Local Church Discussion) was concluded by a brother happening in the Church carried by every ages for the Lord's Testimony. People like you consider it extreme to be treated like this after neglecting the things entrusted to them and later realized "It's all gone"

Those who are not taking heed like whom you followed suffered great loss as consequence of pride, blinded, naked and hiding because of sickness.

Your group (Reformed faith) is so pitiful that they picked you up because they have no idea what's going on and what's going to happen to you. You're going to get all the way to destruction.

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

My picture:

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

My shared post from Richard Baxter: Remember, ourselves are the greatest snare to ourselves.

He commented: At least you realized you're snared!!! By your self: ambition, pride, arrogance, and most of all presumptuousness.

"If we say we believe the doctrines of grace but do not show grace to others, we do not understand the doctrines of grace."

He commented: Until doctrines only?

"Regeneration is something that is accomplished by God. A dead man cannot raise Himself." - R. C. Sproul

He commented: Treasured gems mixed in the mud within the swamp that those who want to enjoy the value needs to get polluted, dirty and exhausted in the extent of fainting to resist the force of deceitful environment where particularly it is.

"I didn't invite Jesus into my heart; he gave me a new heart."

He commented: The title itself is too shallow and wrong!

[Ohio]

Getting past English as a 2nd language, this railing post by a former LC friend of Kevin shows what deep-seated pride and animus which exists in the LC Movement. There is no critique for specific words or actions by Kevin, rather categorical condemnations for his leaving the program, and seeking answers on this forum.

If the wordsmiths at LSM had polished up the rhetoric here, you will get the same flaming bombast which has filled their podiums and websites for decades related to former LC workers such as Max Rapoport, John Ingalls, Titus Chu, Nigel Tomes, etc. Their Laodicean attitudes prevent any critique whatsoever and prevent any workers or members from ever departing peacefully. With LSM, there is only forced silence in subjection to their wide-ranging demands, or a messy divorce. Continued fellowship and/or reconciliation are not available.

Since I left the LC program in 2005, I have met many Christians in many diverse churches. Ten years ago I watched a home meeting leader friend of mine down the street lead perhaps two dozen believers from their current church to another. Sure their was some sadness at the loss, but nothing like I have seen in the LC. Christians come and go within Christian churches without the hostility regularly seen from LSMers. It's part of life. It's how the Great Shepherd often must care for his sheep.

[leastofthese]

So much hostility in this response. Very sad.

Kevin, all you can do is pray for someone like this and strive to love them like Christ loves us. This brother (?) is obviously confused about what the gospel is and how we’re called to carry ourselves as sons of a Living God guided by His Spirit.

Peace to this dude.

[awareness]

Kevin, this brother is evil.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

So much hostility in this response. Very sad.

The "dude" sounds like a Witness Lee tape recorder, that's all.

"You are what you eat," is that not what we heard repeatedly?

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by awareness

Kevin, this brother is evil.

Thanks for the post Awareness - I thought the same thing, but chose not to write it at the time. There is a certain vitriol here that can only come from a dark place.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Thanks for the post Awareness - I thought the same thing, but chose not to write it at the time. There is a certain vitriol here that can only come from a dark place.

Yes. Thanks. I have found many times that, those that condemn are ofttimes those that act and speak in ways that will be condemned.

[byHismercy]

Kevin, this morning I got some ministry into my inbox that the Lord has been using to heal me, I felt to share with you...

John 10:4 and when He brings out His own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow Him....

Jesus the good shepherd goes before us, leading us, while we know our shepherds' voice and follow. Not like the farmer with a gaggle of geese who drives his flock from behind. Legalistic people drive others.

What you are receiving from this Lee enthusiast is not the voice of your savior. When we start to sense the absence of our shepherds' voice, we stray, we wander off. Just keep your focus on Jesus' face and His Word and everything you need will follow....He leads his own to green pasture and living waters...your real Shepherd lays down His life for His flock, unlike the hireling. You simply looked for Him and didn't find Him there in the LC, no matter what they claim about the ''reality'' which you can only find ''in the Lee ministry''. Jesus bless you in your walk. He will bring you into the right assembly, the sweetness of fellowship of faith, and the love that you were created to receive from Him.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If the wordsmiths at LSM had polished up the rhetoric here, you will get the same flaming bombast which has filled their podiums and websites for decades related to former LC workers such as Max Rapoport, John Ingalls, Titus Chu, Nigel Tomes, etc. Their Laodicean attitudes prevent any critique whatsoever and prevent any workers or members from ever departing peacefully. With LSM, there is only forced silence in subjection to their wide-ranging demands, or a messy divorce. Continued fellowship and/or reconciliation are not available.

Ten years ago I watched a home meeting leader friend of mine down the street lead perhaps two dozen believers from their current church to another. Sure their was some sadness at the loss, but nothing like I have seen in the LC. Christians come and go within Christian churches without the hostility regularly seen from LSMers. It's part of life. It's how the Great Shepherd often must care for his sheep.

When one leaves the local churches, it's expected you leave like a gentleman. However the same behavior will not be afforded to you by those who remain.

Just as Ohio has experienced among non-Local Church fellowships, so have I. Families leave, but the door is left open for their return. Even when they do leave for another church, there's no shunning or cutting of fellowship. The fellowship between brothers/sisters continues. It's just partaking of communion is done at a different venue.

[TLFisher]

"We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store."

I have heard that statement and ones similar to it meaning: "We in the Local Churches have everything and those in Christianity have nothing". What pride.
Growing up in the local churches, I used to hearing such statements. What's sad is even now I can go to a LC meeting and hear at least one person utter that quote.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

"We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store."

I have heard that statement and ones similar to it meaning: "We in the Local Churches have everything and those in Christianity have nothing". What pride.
Growing up in the local churches, I used to hearing such statements. What's sad is even now I can go to a LC meeting and hear at least one person utter that quote.

Terry, I agree.

Their "riches" are not the reality of the Spirit but a disguise, cloaked in endless doctrines, non-scriptural "principles," and the traditions of men.

If what they had was the real thing, it would not be accompanied by arrogant pride and the ministry of condemnation.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

Kevin,

I join you in condemning these comments.

Such harsh, hostile, and uncivil comments should not proceed from the mouth, pen, or keyboard of any christian.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

My picture:

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

My shared post from Richard Baxter: Remember, ourselves are the greatest snare to ourselves.

He commented: At least you realized you're snared!!! By your self: ambition, pride, arrogance, and most of all presumptuousness.

"If we say we believe the doctrines of grace but do not show grace to others, we do not understand the doctrines of grace."

He commented: Until doctrines only?

"Regeneration is something that is accomplished by God. A dead man cannot raise Himself." - R. C. Sproul

He commented: Treasured gems mixed in the mud within the swamp that those who want to enjoy the value needs to get polluted, dirty and exhausted in the extent of fainting to resist the force of deceitful environment where particularly it is.

"I didn't invite Jesus into my heart; he gave me a new heart."

He commented: The title itself is too shallow and wrong!

It has a harsh tone, like it was Google translated from Chinese. It could be cultural.

And remember, that Reformers Calvin , Luther and others, said much more violent and vulgar things, which was also due to their culture.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It has a harsh tone, like it was Google translated from Chinese. It could be cultural.

And remember, that Reformers Calvin , Luther and others, said much more violent and vulgar things, which was also due to their culture.

It seems Evangelical would turn around the table whenever I said things about the LC in whatever persuasion where I am in whether it be reformed or evangelical camp. Gotcha mr. Evan

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

My picture:

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

My shared post from Richard Baxter: Remember, ourselves are the greatest snare to ourselves.

He commented: At least you realized you're snared!!! By your self: ambition, pride, arrogance, and most of all presumptuousness.

"If we say we believe the doctrines of grace but do not show grace to others, we do not understand the doctrines of grace."

He commented: Until doctrines only?

"Regeneration is something that is accomplished by God. A dead man cannot raise Himself." - R. C. Sproul

He commented: Treasured gems mixed in the mud within the swamp that those who want to enjoy the value needs to get polluted, dirty and exhausted in the extent of fainting to resist the force of deceitful environment where particularly it is.

"I didn't invite Jesus into my heart; he gave me a new heart."

He commented: The title itself is too shallow and wrong!

But that's not all. He's not satisfied taking backfire on me after I've disputed his whining responses through PM.

In a one public picture post by Higher Rock Conferences page which he saw I shared it on my wall. He didn't comment what I just shared on my timeline so that I might not see the notification on my Facebook of his vulgar tongue. Instead he went to its page's post. He read a bunch of comments who were inquiring about the on-going conference and the admin page replied them one by one: "We replied to your inquiry by PM. Thank you."

And he then commented such a foul language in his own mother tongue:

My translation: You posted publicly, but you answered the inquiries by PM? Such devilish brains of these people (that includes me, the pastors and including Dr. Steve Lawson) at Higher Pride Conferences! Subtle!!!

[Drake]

-1

Kevin,

Invite him or her to pick up the conversation here.

Drake

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

Kevin,

Invite him or her to pick up the conversation here.

Drake

He doesn't want to. He believes that this forum is prolonging the Lord's coming. It seems to me that man's will is omnipotent, and the will of the Sovereign Lord is impotent.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

Pardon me. This is a poor translation of mine.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He doesn't want to. He believes that this forum is prolonging the Lord's coming. It seems to me that man's will omnipotent, and the will of the Sovereign Lord is impotent.

Right.

Tell him that a long time local church member believes the Lord is bigger than this forum but if he really believes this forum is prolonging the Lords return then he should come and make a case for dismantling it.

Drake

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Pardon me. This is a poor translation of mine.

It was arduous to follow but we got the gist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He doesn't want to. He believes that this forum is prolonging the Lord's coming. It seems to me that man's will is omnipotent, and the will of the Sovereign Lord is impotent.

People can be funny. The very idea that a little computer forum can change God's mind about the day and the hour is ludicrous.

[Kevin]

Well he was quite a mouthful.

He's presuming on the "one church, one city" maxim is the only true expression of the universal church. Once you are outside of it as he said, you are the worst pitiful person. That's what he just condemned me. He doesn't even use a single scripture to combat as a counter-response. And if he does quote the OT to justify his accusations, he's mistakenly used the Scriptures in an allegorical interpretation.

There is no greater response to him because he's not really even engaging with me. He's just throwing stuff at me to make me feel bad.

I would just try to demonstrate that the universal church is comprised of many churches that don't have everything correct because everybody is human, there's only one inspired word of God and that's the Holy Bible, That the Bible is self-evident of itself is the only word that is true.

I wish i shouldn't have forced myself to engage - casting pearls before swine. I'd graciously try to get to a conversational level, invoking the Scripture that says we need to be gracious and loving one another. But it failed when he started ranting off. Maybe he got triggered when I told him that Witness Lee was not orthodox.

I've been trying also reaching out to my LC friends, but sad to know when I'm already labeled a dangerous rebel. Thanks to these elders! I realize that I'll be persecuted. I could even lose my life especially when granny gets home and she finds out about my situation. I lied to her many times by via Skype; just not to get into trouble.

All these crazy mindsets of pertaining to someone who has left the LCM makes me really sad.

[Drake]

-1

Kevin,

Anyone has the right to think whatever they want to about people who left or people who stayed. Nothing wrong with that over there or in here. Opinions will be expressed about exactly what that means. Nothing wrong with that either.

To my observation, the main issue is delivery. There or here, brother to brother, whatever your station in His calling, no christian should engage in harsh, hostile, and uncivil comments toward another... and you're not going to win an unbeliever if you lose it with them either.

Except grannies, they get a special pass... you just have to take it.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well he was quite a mouthful.

He's presuming on the "one church, one city" maxim is the only true expression of the universal church. Once you are outside of it as he said, you are the worst pitiful person. That's what he just condemned me. He doesn't even use a single scripture to combat as a counter-response. And if he does quote the OT to justify his accusations, he's mistakenly used the Scriptures in an allegorical interpretation.

There is no greater response to him because he's not really even engaging with me. He's just throwing stuff at me to make me feel bad.

You should not feel bad!

Mt. 5.11-12 "Blessed are you when they reproach you and persecute you, saying every evil thing against you, lying, for My sake, Rejoice and be happy, for your reward is great in the heavens, for thus they persecuted the prophets before you."

In this regard, that LC condemning person is the same as the Pharisees and Judaizers who persecuted the early disciples. The Apostle Paul called them "False Brothers." (Galatians 2.4)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Anyone has the right to think whatever they want to about people who left or people who stayed. Nothing wrong with that over there or in here. Opinions will be expressed about exactly what that means. Nothing wrong with that either.

Unfortunately his thinking is based on the Ministry of Condemnation (II Cor. 3.9) and not the New Covenant, the perfect law of liberty. (James 1.25)

Hey Drake, have you forgotten that even LC members are responsible for their words? Or does that verse only apply to everybody else? (Matt 12.36-37)

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It seems Evangelical would turn around the table whenever I said things about the LC in whatever persuasion where I am in whether it be reformed or evangelical camp. Gotcha mr. Evan

I'm not sure in what sense I would "turn around the table". I am suggesting that it may have appeared much more harsh than intended or really was, coming from a non-English speaking background, and filtered over the medium of internet text.

Sometimes I think people's issue with words is more because of political correctness in their culture, than God or the Bible.

FYI when someone communicates with generalities such as "those in Christianity have nothing" it is obviously a generalization intended to make a point. I would interpret it in a relative sense than an absolute sense. And filtered through the way this person communicates it surely could have been misunderstood to mean something they did not intend to say.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Unfortunately his thinking is based on the Ministry of Condemnation (II Cor. 3.9) and not the New Covenant, the perfect law of liberty. (James 1.25)

Hey Drake, have you forgotten that even LC members are responsible for their words? Or does that verse only apply to everybody else? (Matt 12.36-37)

The immediate context of Matt 12.36-37 (as indicated by the first word "but" in the sentence of verse 36 which indicates relationship with the previous verses 35 etc), is speaking good and evil, including, saying evil things against the Son of Man or the Holy Spirit (verse 32).

Now if there is any evil in what this person said, then please point it out. I cannot see any evil... recalling that this is evil and good from God's point of view, not ours. (FYI we don't get to define what is evil, only God does).

So based on scripture and some common sense:

- it is not evil to call someone a leper, viper, snake, fox etc - Christ did also
- it is not evil to declare the authority of the church
- it is not evil to point out the "self" of pride, ambition, arrogance
- it is not evil to reply to someone's Facebook post even if they don't want you to
- it is not evil to say that the Church has everything and sects have nothing


- is it saying bad against Christ or the Spirit? - no
- is it speaking positively about any sort of evil - no

All in all this could be considered an exhortation, rebuke, or admonishment by a concerned brother.

We live in a world of delicate flowers, who get offended at every turn. When we analyze this post factually we can see there really is no evil in it as far as the Bible is concerned.

My bible tells me that judgement in the house of God is acceptable, and it is those outside we are not to judge (namely, unbelievers).

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So based on scripture and some common sense:

- it is not evil to call someone a leper, viper, snake, fox etc - Christ did also
- it is not evil to declare the authority of the church
- it is not evil to point out the "self" of pride, ambition, arrogance
- it is not evil to reply to someone's Facebook post even if they don't want you to
- it is not evil to say that the Church has everything and sects have nothing



All in all this could be considered an exhortation, rebuke, or admonishment by a concerned brother.

Concerned brother???

We live in a world of delicate flowers, who get offended at every turn.

So calling out the wrongs of Lee and his yes men, calling them evil is not offensive to you? And when people did call him out or offend the LC, not only did they turn into a world of delicate flowers, but excommunicated people who offended the LSM delicate flowers!!!

That was PURE EVIL what was said to Kevin! Take off your rose colored glasses while you can Mr E!! Shame on you for condoning what this 'concerned brother' wrote and said. SHAME ON YOU!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I'm not sure in what sense I would "turn around the table".

I was addressing to the Reformers.

I am suggesting that it may have appeared much more harsh than intended or really was, coming from a non-English speaking background, and filtered over the medium of internet text.

It was a full-blown denigrating on my part. How dare he said those words when we were just talking about doctrine and theology!

FYI when someone communicates with generalities such as "those in Christianity have nothing" it is obviously a generalization intended to make a point.

It was an absolute sense.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

We live in a world of delicate flowers, who get offended at every turn. When we analyze this post factually we can see there really is no evil in it as far as the Bible is concerned.

Nah. It was quite obvious tho.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Concerned brother??? So calling out the wrongs of Lee and his yes men, calling them evil is not offensive to you? And when people did call him out or offend the LC, not only did they turn into a world of delicate flowers, but excommunicated people who offended the LSM delicate flowers!!!
That was PURE EVIL what was said to Kevin! Take off your rose colored glasses while you can Mr E!! Shame on you for condoning what this 'concerned brother' wrote and said. SHAME ON YOU!

Please point out exactly which words he said to Kevin that was evil, or even "pure evil". Please provide the quote, and we'll evaluate it according to what the Bible, not man, calls evil - Did it speak evil of Christ, of the church, or against God's commands? Did it speak in favor of the Devil, division, and breaking God's commands? These are the sorts of things which the Bible says are evil. Something is not evil just because someone thinks it is.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I was addressing to the Reformers. It was a full-blown denigrating on my part. How dare he said those words when we were just talking about doctrine and theology! It was an absolute sense.

It could be considered a rebuke, from his point of view. In terms of vulgarity, his words did not even contain any words that would require censoring. Far worse things are played on televisions all the time. This puts it in the realm of "manner of speech" and communication, giving and taking offense. vil.

[Kevin]

You mean this?

You posted publicly, but you answered the inquiries by PM? Such devilish brains of these people at Higher Pride Conferences! Subtle!!!

There's more than that I didn't bring up here. And yeah, it was definitely evil. Why couldn't you join with Drake?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It could be considered a rebuke, from his point of view. In terms of vulgarity, his words did not even contain any words that would require censoring. Far worse things are played on televisions all the time. This puts it in the realm of "manner of speech" and communication, giving and taking offense. vil.

SMH. Whatever floats your boat Mr. Evan.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Please point out exactly which words he said to Kevin that was evil, or even "pure evil". Please provide the quote, and we'll evaluate it according to what the Bible, not man, calls evil - Did it speak evil of Christ, of the church, or against God's commands? Did it speak in favor of the Devil, division, and breaking God's commands? These are the sorts of things which the Bible says are evil. Something is not evil just because someone thinks it is.

Satan quoted the scriptures to JESUS and SATAN IS PURE EVIL! Many 'Christian' cults interpret and quote the bible and they are PURE EVIL! but like you, they do not see it that way.

God did not give us a Spirit of fear. and that is what the bozo Lcmr was trying to inflict on Kevin.

There was No LOVE in his post...that is God's Love. The LCM has a false, counterfeit 'love' reserved for it's own.

Be careful mr E. that you don't hear the words:

I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the [d]deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Satan quoted the scriptures to JESUS and SATAN IS PURE EVIL! Many 'Christian' cults interpret and quote the bible and they are PURE EVIL! but like you, they do not see it that way.

God did not give us a Spirit of fear. and that is what the bozo Lcmr was trying to inflict on Kevin.

There was No LOVE in his post...that is God's Love. The LCM has a false, counterfeit 'love' reserved for it's own.

Be careful mr E. that you don't hear the words:

Yes, he could be, but we don't know, and we have made him into the devil incarnate, a stranger, on the basis of one or few internet posts, obviously English not his first language. I understand Kevin is upset, I would be too, he has every right to be. But what are we dealing with here? The replaying of the temptation of Christ in the desert? If this fellow is Satan Himself then I suppose Kevin is Jesus.

Satan questioned and tempted Jesus about whether he was the Son of God. That is what was evil. It was not the quoting of Scripture which was evil, or in this case, a disagreement between brethren - although his communication can be improved, there is nothing intrinsically evil about what he said. So it's possibly in the realm of being unwise in our speech, not the realm of evil.

A more mature reaction by Kevin to this sort of thing would be to acknowledge his opinions, perhaps thank him for them, and move on. Not display it on this forum for all to see, where he can then be called pure evil and all sorts of things. If they are indeed in a cult, then we should treat them as those with mental illness - it is not their fault they say these things, to react is to make it worse.

Is this fellow quoting scripture to Kevin to try and make him leave or deny Christ? Is he asking Kevin to commit some sort of sin? I see no evidence of that in his post.

Is he trying to make Kevin afraid? Possibly, but with what fear? The fear of God, possibly? Perhaps the love of Christ and the Church compelled him to say a strong word. We cannot know. God does not exactly punish religious zeal if it is for Christ - Luther, Calvin, Finney, etc many Reformers had it. Saul/Paul was religiously zealous but that was driven by an anti-Christ motive. God's love comes in many forms, even a stern word, a harsh rebuke.

Instead, I see a tendency to over-react by delicate flowers (myself included, or to be biblical - grass) that is more in the realm of "evil" against political correctness and internet manners than actual biblically-defined evil (if we only consider the words themselves, the person may be evil in their heart, we don't know).

[countmeworthy]

Evangelical wrote:

I understand Kevin is upset, I would be too, he has every right to be.

You did not come across being somewhat supportive or understanding Kevin being shaken up and upset. While I do not know Kevin or the author of the post, the poster came across extremely pharisee istic. Jesus called them a brood of vipers. Jesus was compassionate towards the sinners, the woman caught in adultery who by the law was supposed to be stoned to death.

If this fellow is Satan Himself then I suppose Kevin is Jesus.

Your really come across ignorant with this comment Mr E. Spiritually ignorant. Is this what they are teaching in your fellowship group, the LSM these days?? Pitiful!

Satan questioned and tempted Jesus about whether he was the Son of God.

Satan's goal is always to overthrow God. He is full of arrogance and pride even though he lost his beauty and position. He has not learned anything fro his fall and never will. His evil 'heart' in fact has enlarged it seems. The LSM is treading on quicksand just like Satan with it's arrogant and prideful teachings.

A more mature reaction by Kevin to this sort of thing would be to acknowledge his opinions,

A more mature answer from this pompous LSM poster was to shower him with God's love, to point him to JESUS and not away from HIM. A more mature response from you should have been something like "Kevin. I don't know the circumstances that caused this poster to speak to you the way he did but Jesus will NEVER LEAVE YOU OR FORSAKE YOU. (Hebrews 13:5)

Jesus began a good work in you and He will finish it (Philippians 1:6)because you are his and He loves you.

perhaps thank him for them, and move on.

Did you thank Kevin for sharing?

Is this fellow quoting scripture to Kevin to try and make him leave or deny Christ?

I read the entire post and it was disturbing... TO ME.

Is he asking Kevin to commit some sort of sin? I see no evidence of that in his post.

again.. Mr E.. where is your brain?? You need to ask the HOLY SPIRIT TO RENEW YOUR MIND!! Surely he was not asking Kevin to commit some sort of sin. He was indirectly accusing him of 'sin'...Let me be specific because you won't get it without specifics.

Here is exactly what the poster wrote and why we EX LCRS, (Praise the LORD HIS HOLY AND MERCIFUL SPIRIT LED US OUT) were highly disturbed :
you rebelled against the church and definitely caused you to be excommunicated from the unique fellowship of the Body of Christ. You are certainly fallen to the most sorrowful situation of losing the ground of oneness, since you were cast out from our midst. Your situation proves that the Lord is sovereign as the Head of the church miniaturized by the local churches as His Body

You are laid bare before God and thereby diagnosed polluted, infectious, gangrene, at an early stage.

I hope the LORD opens the poster's eyes and heart and creates in him a clean and pure heart repenting for what he wrote. Who is HE (the poster) to dare call a person who disagrees with the LSM's teachings polluted, infectious, gangrene. Did it not disturb YOU MR E? Did it not embarrass you? Probably not since you are so beholden to the LSM's ways, teachings and words, far more than you are beholden to the Words of Jesus and Paul's words through the Holy Spirit.

I guarantee the poster will have to answer to the JUDGE, King Lord Jesus for such harsh words!! You really believe the LORD is pleased and smiling down at the poster's words to Kevin? SHAME ON YOU if you think that!

Is he trying to make Kevin afraid? Possibly, but with what fear? The fear of God, possibly? Perhaps the love of Christ and the Church compelled him to say a strong word.

The Love of Christ is no more there than it is in the Roman Catholic church. The LSM has allowed the spirit of Jezebel to control it and control the beloved deceived saints who are loyal to Witness Lee's teachings way more than they are loyal to Father God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

The LSM controls the saints just as the RCC controls it's catholic followers. The JEZEBEL SPIRIT makes people afraid. She made Ahab and her followers afraid. The RCC who claims it is the one true church has made people afraid to leave it's controlling and idolotrous teachings. I know so many people who go to both 'protestant' churches and the RCC.

They can't break free of their mother..

Of course, we all know the Lord's recovery is NOTHING like the RCC. It doesn't control anyone!! It just excommunicates people and calls them

polluted, infectious, gangrene

Makes them feel God does not love them..and they will most likely end up in the 'outer darkness'.

Instead, I see a tendency to over-react by delicate flowers (myself included,

WOW!! you humbled yourself??? WOW!!

All Glory and Praise to KING JESUS!! May FATHER GOD'S PERFECT WILL BE DONE in all His children in the Mighty and Precious, and Beloved Name of Jesus Christ.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Evangelical wrote:



You did not come across being somewhat supportive or understanding Kevin being shaken up and upset. While I do not know Kevin or the author of the post, the poster came across extremely pharisee istic. Jesus called them a brood of vipers. Jesus was compassionate towards the sinners, the woman caught in adultery who by the law was supposed to be stoned to death.



Your really come across ignorant with this comment Mr E. Spiritually ignorant. Is this what they are teaching in your fellowship group, the LSM these days?? Pitiful!




Satan's goal is always to overthrow God. He is full of arrogance and pride even though he lost his beauty and position. He has not learned anything fro his fall and never will. His evil 'heart' in fact has enlarged it seems. The LSM is treading on quicksand just like Satan with it's arrogant and prideful teachings.




A more mature answer from this pompous LSM poster was to shower him with God's love, to point him to JESUS and not away from HIM. A more mature response from you should have been something like "Kevin. I don't know the circumstances that caused this poster to speak to you the way he did but Jesus will NEVER LEAVE YOU OR FORSAKE YOU. (Hebrews 13:5)

Jesus began a good work in you and He will finish it (Philippians 1:6)because you are his and He loves you.



Did you thank Kevin for sharing?



I read the entire post and it was disturbing... TO ME.


again.. Mr E.. where is your brain?? You need to ask the HOLY SPIRIT TO RENEW YOUR MIND!! Surely he was not asking Kevin to commit some sort of sin. He was indirectly accusing him of 'sin'...Let me be specific because you won't get it without specifics.

Here is exactly what the poster wrote and why we EX LCRS, (Praise the LORD HIS HOLY AND MERCIFUL SPIRIT LED US OUT) were highly disturbed :
you rebelled against the church and definitely caused you to be excommunicated from the unique fellowship of the Body of Christ. You are certainly fallen to the most sorrowful situation of losing the ground of oneness, since you were cast out from our midst. Your situation proves that the Lord is sovereign as the Head of the church miniaturized by the local churches as His Body

You are laid bare before God and thereby diagnosed polluted, infectious, gangrene, at an early stage.

I hope the LORD opens the poster's eyes and heart and creates in him a clean and pure heart repenting for what he wrote. Who is HE (the poster) to dare call a person who disagrees with the LSM's teachings polluted, infectious, gangrene. Did it not disturb YOU MR E? Did it not embarrass you? Probably not since you are so beholden to the LSM's ways, teachings and words, far more than you are beholden to the Words of Jesus and Paul's words through the Holy Spirit.

I guarantee the poster will have to answer to the JUDGE, King Lord Jesus for such harsh words!! You really believe the LORD is pleased and smiling down at the poster's words to Kevin? SHAME ON YOU if you think that!



The Love of Christ is no more there than it is in the Roman Catholic church. The LSM has allowed the spirit of Jezebel to control it and control the beloved deceived saints who are loyal to Witness Lee's teachings way more than they are loyal to Father God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

The LSM controls the saints just as the RCC controls it's catholic followers. The JEZEBEL SPIRIT makes people afraid. She made Ahab and her followers afraid. The RCC who claims it is the one true church has made people afraid to leave it's controlling and idolotrous teachings. I know so many people who go to both 'protestant' churches and the RCC.

They can't break free of their mother..

Of course, we all know the Lord's recovery is NOTHING like the RCC. It doesn't control anyone!! It just excommunicates people and calls them Makes them feel God does not love them..and they will most likely end up in the 'outer darkness'.




WOW!! you humbled yourself??? WOW!!

All Glory and Praise to KING JESUS!! May FATHER GOD'S PERFECT WILL BE DONE in all His children in the Mighty and Precious, and Beloved Name of Jesus Christ.

Words like "polluted" can describe the condition of believers mixed with the world.

I would caution people to not be hasty to call children of God "pure evil" or otherwise. His words were strong, as were Jesus's when rebuking the pharisees, but not necessarily evil.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Words like "polluted" can describe the condition of believers mixed with the world.

I would caution people to not be hasty to call children of God "pure evil" or otherwise. His words were strong, as were Jesus's when rebuking the pharisees, but not necessarily evil.

The "kind" words the "concerned brother" wrote are in bold. Mine are not in bold.


The measurement of our knowing the Lord Jesus is Loving Him as the person whom we have not seen and this is beyond Theology.

You have lost this experience since you rebelled against the church…

Wrong. Leaving the local church in no way affects anyone’s knowing the Lord Jesus and loving Him as the person whom we have not seen. There are millions of genuine, Jesus-loving Christians around the world that are not in the local church.

and definitely caused you to be excommunicated from the unique fellowship of the Body of Christ.

Wrong. Anyone who is a genuine believer is a part of the Body of Christ. The local churches are not “the Body of Christ”; they are part of it.

You are certainly fallen to the most sorrowful situation of losing the ground of oneness, since you were cast out from our midst. Your situation proves that the Lord is sovereign as the Head of the church miniaturized by the local churches as His Body

Wrong. There is no “miniaturized" Body in the Body of Christ.

You are laid bare before God and thereby diagnosed polluted, infectious, gangrene, at an early stage.

EvanG, you stated that the word “polluted” can describe the condition of believers mixed with the world, the implication being that that is what the “kind, concerned brother” meant. From Kevin’s posts on another thread, Kevin stated that he was strongly convicted to look for a Bible-based, Christ-honoring church. He said he wanted to pray about a group he was considering, to be sure he is following the Lord’s leading as he searched. What part of that is polluted?

Thank the Lord as the unique administrator in the Throne subjecting you under our feet as those sitting with Him in His throne

For one believer to say that any other believer is subjected under their feet is……well can anyone tell me if there is any sort of Biblical backup for this? If anyone in the local churches thinks they can subject other believers under their feet…..yikes. I know the Lord is on the throne and He has subjected all things under His feet. I know we are seated in the heavenlies with Him. I just cannot make the leap that believers subject other believers under their feet.

The Lord saw you in your real situation as He walks in the midst of the Churches. He saw you how polluted you became that it even reaches to your heart as He search it and found no repentance at all but rather worsen your own situation of putting yourself into a curse.

EvanG, you cautioned some posters against calling “evil” a person they did not know and whose heart they did not know. I would similarly apply that admonition here……this “concerned” brother should not pointedly call another believer “polluted”. I would also caution against any mortal human claiming to know what the Lord saw and what the Lord found when he searched anyone’s heart.

Of being against the teaching in which you were taught. Wait the result of all these that you are doing. Think of the authority of the Church of what it can do for you.

You are are the one the what you called leper, sick with itchy ear and has became blind by your continuously defiled in an exposed, contaminated sphere explored by you out of curiosity and thereby suffering the consequence of acting like boasting of the little knowledge gained and assumed it to be great.

Again, from what I have read, Kevin seems to be genuinely seeking after the Lord’s leading. We all have our own journey in the Lord. It is no one’s position to condemn another person’s genuine exploration and grasping after the Lord.

Frankly speaking, outside the Lord's Recovery all they can boast of, are nothing!!! We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store. And all theologians in the world are envy of it that's why many of them embraced the teaching as they got convinced while doing critical studies intensively, and you were very far compare to what you've done, you are doing, and what you will do

Wrong again. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am ashamed to still be connected to a group that harbors people who think this way. As stated in other posts, there is no “we in the Lord’s Recovery”……without being schismatic. Just ask Watchman Nee…I’m happy to post that section again. All the theologians in the world are not “envy of it”, sorry. There is nothing anyone can boast in outside the Lord’s Recovery? How about boasting in Christ Jesus our Lord? He is outside the Lord’s Recovery. Is He nothing?

References you are using were obsoletes as to what authorities can recommend. Like for certain, The Recovery Version Bible is now considered Bibles for America. Nothing can hinder what the Lord is doing in His recovery today!!!

People like you can hinder what the Lord is doing…..that’s a fact!

His will is done here on earth as it is in the Heavens through His builded Church in His unique Recovery and everything apart from it is mess, a heap of collapsed

Take out “in His unique Recovery” (as applies to Lee’s group, not as applies to the work the Lord Himself is doing on the earth) and I agree. The heap of collapse also includes every word that the “concerned brother” Kevin quoted has said.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Trapped

The "kind" words the "concerned brother" wrote are in bold. Mine are not in bold...

Interesting that you invoked Watchman Nee. I think if we compared what Watchman Nee wrote about the church it will align with this fellow's views, not Kevin's, or yours. For example, the idea that the local churches are only part of the Body is not what Watchman Nee taught.

I am still of the opinion that this fellow was trying to communicate Watchman Nee's views regarding the church but did so poorly. Not necessarily evil, but rather unwise.

However some here have compared him and the local churches to Satan, which is a lower level than this fellow went to in my opinion because it is in the realm of blasphemy.

[Ohio]

I have read and reread Nee's The Normal Christian Church Life, And nearly nothing at LSM or the LC's matches that book.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

You did not come across being somewhat supportive or understanding Kevin being shaken up and upset. While I do not know Kevin or the author of the post, the poster came across extremely pharisee istic. Jesus called them a brood of vipers. Jesus was compassionate towards the sinners, the woman caught in adultery who by the law was supposed to be stoned to death.


......Your really come across ignorant with this comment Mr E. Spiritually ignorant. Is this what they are teaching in your fellowship group, the LSM these days?? Pitiful!

Satan's goal is always to overthrow God. He is full of arrogance and pride even though he lost his beauty and position. He has not learned anything fro his fall and never will. His evil 'heart' in fact has enlarged it seems. The LSM is treading on quicksand just like Satan with it's arrogant and prideful teachings.

.....again.. Mr E.. where is your brain?? You need to ask the HOLY SPIRIT TO RENEW YOUR MIND!!

........I hope the LORD opens the poster's eyes and heart and creates in him a clean and pure heart repenting for what he wrote. Who is HE (the poster) to dare call a person who disagrees with the LSM's teachings polluted, infectious, gangrene. Did it not disturb YOU MR E? Did it not embarrass you? Probably not since you are so beholden to the LSM's ways, teachings and words, far more than you are beholden to the Words of Jesus and Paul's words through the Holy Spirit.

..............The LSM controls the saints just as the RCC controls it's catholic followers. The JEZEBEL SPIRIT makes people afraid. .

CMW,

I wonder if you perceive the irony in your post.

Frankly, I see no difference between content, tone, or delivery between it and Kevin’s poster.

Drake

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Drake

CMW,

I wonder if you perceive the irony in your post.

Frankly, I see no difference between content, tone, or delivery between it and Kevin’s poster.

Drake

To me it's quite different. CMW poses questions designed to admonish but offers grace and hope in her words, Kevin's poster was void of grace and possibility for redemption, and no attempt to restore Kevin to fellowship. God knows the heart of everyone and will judge accordingly. Yet it is unfair to judge on the basis of some words on a website.

I once used to converse with a lovely Christian old man over the internet. We became friends and I helped him, prayed for each other. I found out later he was a witch and his prayers were spells. This is why I say we just can't know who is behind the keyboard. Even a typed out prayer can be a prayer for one person and a spell for another.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

To me it's quite different. CMW poses questions designed to admonish but offers grace and hope in her words, Kevin's poster was void of grace and possibility for redemption, and no attempt to restore Kevin to fellowship. God knows the heart of everyone and will judge accordingly. Yet it is unfair to judge on the basis of some words on a website.

I once used to converse with a lovely Christian old man over the internet. We became friends and I helped him, prayed for each other. I found out later he was a witch and his prayers were spells. This is why I say we just can't know who is behind the keyboard. Even a typed out prayer can be a prayer for one person and a spell for another.

I missed the “grace and hope” part in either.

On Kevin’s poster, there is apparently a history there or at least some understanding of events that transpired with Kevin and the locality he was in. The poster refers to excommunication and perhaps that was downstream from or related to Kevin’s very first post in the forum last year. So there is a context, a language barrier, and perhaps a cultural aspect to Kevin’s poster that is part of a bigger picture we don’t see. Nevertheless, where I sit the tone, content, and delivery were over the top..... as was CMWs.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

To me it's quite different. CMW poses questions designed to admonish but offers grace and hope in her words, Kevin's poster was void of grace and possibility for redemption, and no attempt to restore Kevin to fellowship. God knows the heart of everyone and will judge accordingly. Yet it is unfair to judge on the basis of some words on a website.

I once used to converse with a lovely Christian old man over the internet. We became friends and I helped him, prayed for each other. I found out later he was a witch and his prayers were spells. This is why I say we just can't know who is behind the keyboard. Even a typed out prayer can be a prayer for one person and a spell for another.

Interesting situation you found yourself in.

I remember whole meetings where we prayed like casting spells. For example among many, in praying for a sister whose husband wasn't a believer, we all prayed things like, "Lord wreck his life." And another would pray, "Lord wreck his business." And everyone would shout "amen," and continue casting spells.

And the spells worked. His life and business were wrecked. He came into the local church.

Then that local church was eventually wrecked, and no longer exists.

So the last thing I would ever want is a local churcher praying for me.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Interesting that you invoked Watchman Nee. I think if we compared what Watchman Nee wrote about the church it will align with this fellow's views, not Kevin's, or yours. For example, the idea that the local churches are only part of the Body is not what Watchman Nee taught.

Sorry for my slow response to your quoted comment. Can you elaborate on this please? Thanks.