LC Gibberish

[Koinonia]

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

[Freedom]

I think this one is from a recent training or something. I've seen it floating around on the internet:
Becoming divine and mystical persons living in the divine and mystical realm for the building of the divine and mystical temple of God.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Or... The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

[UntoHim]

Or...

The K of the E, I, C, C of the C, I, E, K.

Everybody now....supercalifragilisticexpialidocious....

You can't make this stuff up folks.

-

[Cal]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Or...

The K of the E, I, C, C of the C, I, E, K.

Everybody now....supercalifragilisticexpialidocious....

You can't make this stuff up folks.

-

I can hear Lee now...

"There is the consummation. But then... FURTHER!... There is... the CONSUMMATE consummation!!... This is deeper and higher, and way over here, and way over there, too.... Only we... in the Lord's Recovery... have seen this."

And everyone screams, "AMEN!!!"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Or... The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

"Now let's have all the churches from Texas stand and recite Banner #1 with a strong, buoyant, joyful, exercised and released spirit to nourish all the brothers and sisters!"

"The Kernal of ..."

[Freedom]

I think that much of the purpose behind the LC lingo it that it's a convenient tactic that is intended to purposely confuse people. What better way for Lee to insulate his position than by developing a talk that only he himself could come up with. Some of this nonsense is downright stupid and illogical, and there is no way decipher it besides calling it what it really is. Since LCers can't call BS, they simply arrive at the premature conclusion that they themselves are the problem that they are limited in what they understand. Thus ensures that the authority structure maintains intact.

On the other hand, a lot of the lingo does have subtle implications. Just consider normal things found in the Bible like the temple, the altar, the golden lampstand. Everyone knows what these are, but what does the LC do? They predicate everything with phrases like "the intrinsic significance". What they're really saying is that everything they attach these labels to has some kind of esoteric meaning that only they see. This is why I find this kind of talk to be disconcerting. It's subtle, it's elusive, and if you try to address it, they play word games with you. Christians should be on the lookout for people using peculiar language and terminology. It almost certainly indicates that there's something else going on.

[Cal]

The LC's turgid slogans were bombast designed to create a wow factor. They worked... 40 years ago. The sizzle is long off the steak, however. Yet they continue. They can't do anything different because that's the way Lee did it, and Lee can't be wrong or improved upon. So order up more white banners and red nouns and verbs, and lots of red adverbs and adjectives. Heap those up. Maybe more will help. Repeat because we know nothing else, to the point of being pathetic.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Wow!

I frequently praise God that I'm free of Lee!

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Was this a real banner or did someone make it up?

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by HERn

Was this a real banner or did someone make it up?

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

Thanks Freedom. Last year or so I looked at a recent LSM outline and compared what was written to the cited bible verses and was amazed at the incongruity. I remember as an LC member paying more attention to the outline than to the content of the bible verses.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by HERn

Thanks Freedom. Last year or so I looked at a recent LSM outline and compared what was written to the cited bible verses and was amazed at the incongruity. I remember as an LC member paying more attention to the outline than to the content of the bible verses.

Of course. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the outline that was prayread instead of the bible verses.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Not at all. I often tell a brother "it's a lot of words to say very little". Who knows, maybe whoever comes up with these phrases is puffed up with pride. Whenever the next outline comes up, he takes it as a challenge if he can out do himself.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I think that much of the purpose behind the LC lingo it that it's a convenient tactic that is intended to purposely confuse people. What better way for Lee to insulate his position than by developing a talk that only he himself could come up with. Some of this nonsense is downright stupid and illogical, and there is no way decipher it besides calling it what it really is. Since LCers can't call BS, they simply arrive at the premature conclusion that they themselves are the problem that they are limited in what they understand. Thus ensures that the authority structure maintains intact.

On the other hand, a lot of the lingo does have subtle implications. Just consider normal things found in the Bible like the temple, the altar, the golden lampstand. Everyone knows what these are, but what does the LC do? They predicate everything with phrases like "the intrinsic significance". What they're really saying is that everything they attach these labels to has some kind of esoteric meaning that only they see. This is why I find this kind of talk to be disconcerting. It's subtle, it's elusive, and if you try to address it, they play word games with you. Christians should be on the lookout for people using peculiar language and terminology. It almost certainly indicates that there's something else going on.

Freedom, it is confusing. It purposely traps people in their mind trying to comprehend what exactly is the message we're reading? It's a vehicle for those who do comprehend to boast about the knowledge they glean from the ministry and how non-LSM Christianity has nothing to offer.

[NewManLiving]

If that is an actual quote then the LSM has gone from the rediculous to the absurd.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by NewManLiving

If that is an actual quote then the LSM has gone from the rediculous to the absurd.

This is not an actual quote, but all of these are phrases used by Witness Lee and rehashed and rehashed every year by the blended brothers.

For example, "Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Lord's Recovery"--a Witness Lee book title, and also the title of a recent major LSM conference.

"Crucial Points of the Major Items"...?

[Freedom]

I have always felt that the LC lingo is one of the most noticeable oddities within the LC. I was always embarrassed by it, because frankly, I had no idea how to explain or rationalize it to anyone outside the LC. Despite my gut feelings about it, I did take it as some sort of 'evidence' that we were special. To that extent, I agree that WL did want to impress people with the terminology. After all, he eventually went so far as to say that his so-called high peak truths needed a "new language".

Despite the existence of a 'wow' factor, I think that really only goes so far. I never felt that as time passed that I gained any better grasp on the terminology/lingo. What I found is that I eventually became indifferent towards the more bizarre aspects of the LC and tried to focus on the things that seemed positive. I think that many members tend to do the same thing.

If members aren't necessarily being continually 'wowed' by the lingo, it makes sense then to ask the question as to just why members tolerate the gibberish. I heard members complain a few times about not understanding things being spoken. Leaders didn't really seem to take this offensively, they just would use it as an opportunity to tell the person that they should attend a PSRP meeting if they wanted to fully understand it. In other words, it seemed that the underlying implication was that Lee's words needed more than just reading. They also needed memorizing, pray-reading, and reciting. I actually attended meetings where we pray-read an outline or even a ministry excerpt. In retrospect, it was nauseating.

In essence, it's all a trap. Members are held with a bone in front of them that always remains just out of reach. They think that if they just attend the FTTA for 2 years then all the pieces will come into place. If they just wait a few years, they will be able to understand what Lee was speaking about. Furthermore, I think that like I have mentioned before, the disconnect from what is being taught, is something that helps reinforce the LC hierarchy. It keeps members in their place and the blendeds in their place. Unless someone can't recite or decipher Lee's lingo, there technically is really no place for that person in the LC. But that's okay to leaders, because as long as such members believe that the bone is just within reach, they will likely stick around for awhile and fill the otherwise empty seats.

[TLFisher]

Instead of the wow factor, I get the "whatever" factor. Whatever makes you (LSM) feel better about yourselves. Really, I see it as another facet of spiritual bullying. There's a systemic pride the brothers cannot be content with the local churches being just another Christian church. There must be a way to create separation and make distinctions in order to say "hey look at us! We have a heavenly language that makes us distinctly superior to any other Christian fellowship."

Those that see through the façade see it really as grown men playing in a sandbox. That's what all the wordsmithing amounts to.

[Freedom]

An attitude of indifference to some of the bizarre things is probably more common than leaders would like to think. I've seen people shake their heads or roll their eyes when someone stands up and attempts to recite a nonsensical and run-on sentence. What ultimately determines whether members stay or leave is how sold they are on the LC. They could be absolutely miserable in the LC, but if they buy into the notions that they alone are God's elect or that there is nowhere else that has anything of value, then they will be stuck.

As I see it, leaders are taking a gamble. They depend on giving members some sort of so-called 'vision' that will make them loyal to the LC. Most of the time it works. If it does, they can then collect training/conference fees and sell books. It doesn't really matter what is said in those conferences or books. As long as members are sold on the system, content is irrelevant. Like I say, it's a gamble, and sometimes they lose. Every now and then, long time members simply disappear.

As long as the losses aren't significant, they can continue to play their little game. Of course, every once in a while, mass disillusionment comes. Then leaders have to put a spin on things. They attempt to call disillusionment other things, using words like turmoil, rebellion or conspiracy.

[OBW]

It is definitely a "wow" factor for the members.

But if you really took the time to try to decipher those things, how could you get so giddy over them? They are essentially exercises in the absurd. And if you can just repeat them at the top of your lungs and shout rounds of "Praise the Lord!" after each, then you really aren't reading them.

And you probably won't really be reading or listening when the rest of the claptrap nonsense goes by. Instead, you will be predisposed to ignore any potential question marks and just shout more "Hallelujahs."

And someone mentioned the random scripture references that have no connection to the points being made. I like to refer it that as littering. Not because the verses are litter, but because they have been scattered about for the purpose of tricking otherwise dear Christians into being fooled by the "spirituality" of what is being said.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

It is definitely a "wow" factor for the members.

But if you really took the time to try to decipher those things, how could you get so giddy over them? They are essentially exercises in the absurd. And if you can just repeat them at the top of your lungs and shout rounds of "Praise the Lord!" after each, then you really aren't reading them.

And you probably won't really be reading or listening when the rest of the claptrap nonsense goes by. Instead, you will be predisposed to ignore any potential question marks and just shout more "Hallelujahs."

Any amens or hallelujahs is a conditioned robotic response, because you've already tuned out the noise and checked out mentally. Instead pondering how will you be spending the afternoon or what the meals should be for lunch and dinner.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

An attitude of indifference to some of the bizarre things is probably more common than leaders would like to think. I've seen people shake their heads or roll their eyes when someone stands up and attempts to recite a nonsensical and run-on sentence. What ultimately determines whether members stay or leave is how sold they are on the LC. They could be absolutely miserable in the LC, but if they buy into the notions that they alone are God's elect or that there is nowhere else that has anything of value, then they will be stuck.

As I see it, leaders are taking a gamble. They depend on giving members some sort of so-called 'vision' that will make them loyal to the LC. Most of the time it works. If it does, they can then collect training/conference fees and sell books. It doesn't really matter what is said in those conferences or books. As long as members are sold on the system, content is irrelevant. Like I say, it's a gamble, and sometimes they lose. Every now and then, long time members simply disappear.

As long as the losses aren't significant, they can continue to play their little game. Of course, every once in a while, mass disillusionment comes. Then leaders have to put a spin on things. They attempt to call disillusionment other things, using words like turmoil, rebellion or conspiracy.

What makes people stay? Considering my parents, I can only come up with the social connections and being sold out for the ground doctrine.

[Unsure]

Originally Posted by Terry

Any amens or hallelujahs is a conditioned robotic response, because you've already tuned out the noise and checked out mentally. Instead pondering how will you be spending the afternoon or what the meals should be for lunch and dinner.

Amen to that! Some more than others.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

Silly me. I was one of those who thought the lingo was real, and that it was WL's attempt to describe what is in the Bible to us. Initially I got into the quoted verses and thought I saw what WL was talking about. But, after years and years of getting into the Bible book we were "life studying" or "Chrystalization studying", reading the LSM Outline's cited verses, and separately actually reading the Bible daily and praying (which they harp on), I found the verses didn't always corroborate what was in the outline. In fact they often pointed out truth not talked about or even contradict a point occasionally. When I said so, the saints and elders would fall silent, then go back to verbatim reciting of "the points".

Very sad.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

During the heyday of the new way, with our first door-knocking instruction to "turn left" to the next house, and preprogrammed introductions and responses, Titus Chu commented that LSM could have much better success by just hiring unsaved sales people to recruit door-to-door.

I think his words got back to headquarters.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by JJ

. . . that it was WL's attempt to describe what is in the Bible to us. . . .

Actually, the Bible says it pretty well. If there is any problem with understanding he Bible, it is that on occasion there are places where having it said more clearly, not more cryptically, would be helpful.

And most of those banner-like, long phrases do not provide clarity. Instead they redefine and obfuscate.

All scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching. All Leeisms are Lee-breathed and profitable for Lee through the LSM.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

An attitude of indifference to some of the bizarre things is probably more common than leaders would like to think. I've seen people shake their heads or roll their eyes when someone stands up and attempts to recite a nonsensical and run-on sentence. What ultimately determines whether members stay or leave is how sold they are on the LC. They could be absolutely miserable in the LC, but if they buy into the notions that they alone are God's elect or that there is nowhere else that has anything of value, then they will be stuck.

I'm sure the co-workers, elders, etc buy into the hype they're spewing, but for the majority in the local churches I believe pacify the leaders with lip-service, but not buying into the minutia the banners bring. Just biding time to get back to status quo small group meetings and other social activities that go along with it.

[Cal]

All that flowery talk was the thing back in the day. "High speaking" we called it.
Yeah, we were high all right.


I remember John Ingalls appeared at a conference in Houston and gave a series of messages featuring this kind of heavy-on-the-adjectives-and-adverbs language.

I recall "The God Man Joint Enterprise for Glory and Dominion."

And "The Growing Garden of the Implanted, Sprouting and Blooming God."

There were a few others, equally verbose.

So Ingalls was in on it, too. This was his stuff, not Lee's. Of course, Lee eventually put the kabosh on all variant creativity.

I guess it was pretty harmless. It was just indicative of our appetite for that sort of goofy stuff.

Mostly I remember the coffee and pastries at the Church in Houston were the best in the Recovery.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by OBW

Actually, the Bible says it pretty well. If there is any problem with understanding he Bible, it is that on occasion there are places where having it said more clearly, not more cryptically, would be helpful.

And most of those banner-like, long phrases do not provide clarity. Instead they redefine and obfuscate.

All scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching. All Leeisms are Lee-breathed and profitable for Lee through the LSM.

Agreed. "Dispensing" is a good example (talk about an over-used WLism!). Why not use "fill" like the Bible does? Be filled in spirit, or be filled with the Spirit... straight forward. Exercise the spirit? Doesn't say that in my Bible, exercise thyself unto godliness is what it says. So, we end up with a whole new religion with part truth, part fantasy, part way of the nations (fallen human king dominating others while they exalt him and war with others).

[OBW]

This one has been dormant for almost a month but it was calling my name. (hear it calling yours?)

Originally Posted by JJ

Agreed. "Dispensing" is a good example (talk about an over-used WLism!). Why not use "fill" like the Bible does? Be filled in spirit, or be filled with the Spirit... straight forward. Exercise the spirit? Doesn't say that in my Bible, exercise thyself unto godliness is what it says. So, we end up with a whole new religion with part truth, part fantasy, part way of the nations (fallen human king dominating others while they exalt him and war with others).

You might be right. But I think that dispensing meant something other than just "fill." The impression that I got then (in less critical terms, but nonetheless what I got) was that is was like needing a week of complete multi-course meals at a high-end restaurant, but instead getting it doled out over much longer in depression era bread lines.

Dispensing was the reason that you couldn't do anything. It was never the reason you could, or even should. It was something that you always needed more of because it didn't just happen and you (erroneously under Lee's teachings) thought that you weren't supposed to try anyway. You were supposed to wait for the dispensing.

Oddly, one of Nee's books that made its way into wider Christian circles, Sit Walk Stand, quietly proposed the same error. It insisted that you needed to sit for a while until you were ready to stand.

But that is not the way Peter said it. He declared that we have what we need for life and godliness. I'm sure that Paul said it too, even if less directly. He really did do a lot of "straighten out and fly right" kind of writing. It is just that we are too prone to looking the spiritual facts that underpinned the reason we should do and ignore the do and just try to do the spiritual. Those were facts, not mountains to be climbed.

[OBW]

I have mentioned before that a relative of mine insisted several years ago that the way you say it is very important. Somehow the words used increase the "reality" of it and the "experience" of it.

I was unable to hide my disgust at such a ridiculous notion.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Or... The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

Igzy, this seriously made me laugh.....thanks.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Only we... in the Lord's Recovery... have seen this."

This is the primary sickness of the LC. The idea that having more and better knowledge makes for a better Christian experience and position in God's kingdom.

Not saying that there isn't some of the same tendencies in Christianity. But nothing like in the LC.

I had one LCer (a nephew of mine) declare that having a better vocabulary (Lexicon) made the experience of Christ better. He sort of challenged me to a private debate on the subject, but never responded when I set up a private place for it to happen.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

Have they written a song to this yet? I could never remember such a convoluted set of words without a tune to sing it to.

Also, I like the fact that it is a palindrome of ridiculous words, thereby making it doubly ridiculous.

And the ridiculous palindrome is now remembered more than any actual meaningful thought that may have been in the message (if any).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

I had one LCer (a nephew of mine) declare that having a better vocabulary (Lexicon) made the experience of Christ better. He sort of challenged me to a private debate on the subject, but never responded when I set up a private place for it to happen.

This is 100% Lee during the High Peak era of the early 90's. It did nothing but puff us up. Pure nonsense.

What delivered me from this error was the inability to communicate with others using "a better vocabulary" of high peak terminology. I was supposed to believe that hours of study throughout the week in order to speak this stuff for 2-5 minutes on Sunday was wise.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Have they written a song to this yet? I could never remember such a convoluted set of words without a tune to sing it to.

Also, I like the fact that it is a palindrome of ridiculous words, thereby making it doubly ridiculous.

And the ridiculous palindrome is now remembered more than any actual meaningful thought that may have been in the message (if any).

Back in the '80's I stayed at the Irving Hall for a training. They announced the plan to purchase some property in Taiwan called "Lin-Ko." In the afternoon break time, the Texas young people leaders were writing new Lin-Ko songs and practicing to sing them. I thought that was absolutely crazy.

The whole plan fell thru when agents for Lee forgot to check zoning laws.

"No problem. We'll just keep your money for the next boondoggle."

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by OBW

I have mentioned before that a relative of mine insisted several years ago that the way you say it is very important. Somehow the words used increase the "reality" of it and the "experience" of it.

I was unable to hide my disgust at such a ridiculous notion.

This seems to fit with the thought that we can speak somethimg into being as if we were really are becoming God haha

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

This seems to fit with the thought that we can speak something into being as if we were really are becoming God haha

There seems to be a fine line between what the world sees as "positive affirmation" and speaking what is true according to the word of God. But not really. The first denies the power and existence of God - "The universe will hear and respond to me if I speak this" kind of thing. (they may substitute "god" for "universe" in this practice)

The message of the Bible is we must be have faith. Faith is about believing in God who is unseen and in His Son, Jesus Christ. Faith is also agreeing with what God has to say about us, according to His word.

Yes, words do mean things. The world has a form of this in "speaking positively," and that might produce something in a temporal way to get what one desires. But in the end, it's the same for all things apart from Christ - the result is just death. But if I speak what the scripture says about me, it has fruit unto eternal life! For instance, agreeing with the word and speaking aloud scripture that "I'm a new creation!" "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me!" "I am not in flesh, but in spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in me!" "The blood of Christ has cleansed me from all sin!" "I am the righteousness of God in Christ!"

Now those are powerful words that I can speak aloud concerning who I really am already in Him! I'm not making something that's not real into something that is - it's something He has already done and speaking it helps to manifest in my experience what's already true.

Does that make sense?

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

There seems to be a fine line between what the world sees as "positive affirmation" and speaking what is true according to the word of God. But not really. The first denies the power and existence of God - "The universe will hear and respond to me if I speak this" kind of thing. (they may substitute "god" for "universe" in this practice)

The message of the Bible is we must be have faith. Faith is about believing in God who is unseen and in His Son, Jesus Christ. Faith is also agreeing with what God has to say about us, according to His word.

Yes, words do mean things. The world has a form of this in "speaking positively," and that might produce something in a temporal way to get what one desires. But in the end, it's the same for all things apart from Christ - the result is just death. But if I speak what the scripture says about me, it has fruit unto eternal life! For instance, agreeing with the word and speaking aloud scripture that "I'm a new creation!" "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me!" "I am not in flesh, but in spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in me!" "The blood of Christ has cleansed me from all sin!" "I am the righteousness of God in Christ!"

Now those are powerful words that I can speak aloud concerning who I really am already in Him! I'm not making something that's not real into something that is - it's something He has already done and speaking it helps to manifest in my experience what's already true.

Does that make sense?

Yes! Thank you! Speaking the word of God is different than speaking what we want. Yesterday I was talking to my neighbor and he said that “by faith” I could speak into being having a baby. Uh....no. And he said that he spoke his nephew into being and told his sister that she have a boy. He also stated that my husband and I might be in the wrong church. Seriously, dude? There were others times when I complained and saint would say, “don’t say that. Don’t speak negative because it will come true.” Again....we don’t have that kind of power, right? Even in our prayer. We must pray, but God will answer as He wills, right?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

This seems to fit with the thought that we can speak somethimg into being as if we were really are becoming God haha

This is not an easy subject to evaluate and summarize quickly. For example, in Galatians, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap". This seems to be not only a spiritual law for believers, but for unbelievers also, to any "man". This applies even to our psychology and to our words. If you just go on in life speaking negatively about yourself, and to your dog and your family, likely you will be pretty miserable, and they will let you know so in return (and vice versa).

And then spiritually, when Peter healed and rose a person from the dead, he "spoke it so"..."But Peter said, “Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, get up and walk!” Then here, “Aeneas,” Peter said to him, “Jesus Christ heals you! Get up and put away your mat.” Immediately Aeneas got up". And also, "Then Peter sent them all out of the room. He knelt down and prayed, and turning toward her body, he said, “Tabitha, get up!” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter, she sat up.

But like with many things, we can´t get superstitious about this either, and start shouting that I have won the lottery and expect it to become true...do I hear pipe dream?....

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Yes! Thank you! Speaking the word of God is different than speaking what we want. Yesterday I was talking to my neighbor and he said that “by faith” I could speak into being having a baby. Uh....no. And he said that he spoke his nephew into being and told his sister that she have a boy. He also stated that my husband and I might be in the wrong church. Seriously, dude? There were others times when I complained and saint would say, “don’t say that. Don’t speak negative because it will come true.” Again....we don’t have that kind of power, right? Even in our prayer. We must pray, but God will answer as He wills, right?

Words do mean things and have sway, to be sure, but they (thankfully) are limited by God who says, "Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails!" (Prov 19:21) Thank God, His purpose prevails! We are also told that we don't even know what we should pray for as we should, but the Spirit [speaks for us]. (Rom 8:26)

"Let your requests be made known to God . . ." (Phil 4:6)

The creator made us in His image, so humans are quite creative. And our words do carry some weight, but thankfully He limits their effect, otherwise who knows we might might try to speak into existence! LOL

I do believe we can talk ourselves into things, and especially if we speak them aloud. That is, saying something like, "Man, I just know it's going to be one of those days!" Then it probably will be one of those days. But thankfully His word is infinitely more powerful, and we can turn to Him and speak His word and what is really true!

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Yes! Thank you! Speaking the word of God is different than speaking what we want. Yesterday I was talking to my neighbor and he said that “by faith” I could speak into being having a baby. Uh....no. And he said that he spoke his nephew into being and told his sister that she have a boy. He also stated that my husband and I might be in the wrong church. Seriously, dude? There were others times when I complained and saint would say, “don’t say that. Don’t speak negative because it will come true.” Again....we don’t have that kind of power, right? Even in our prayer. We must pray, but God will answer as He wills, right?

Sst, scripture teaches us that our words are merely a representation of what's already in our hearts.

Words shouldn't be the sole focus of our prayers because even if we don't know what to say, God already knows our needs. It's our heart toward Him in trust and faith that truly matters.

Even you know from your experience in the GLA that scriptures can be weaponized and used against you. I too witnessed this myself. If you're using scripture in the wrong spirit, you risk turning that prayer into witchcraft.

The belief that our words have any creative power comes dangerously close to the "word of faith" heresy prevalent in a large part of Christendom. Going forward, just believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord of Lords, draw near to Him, and trust Him in all things. You can make your requests known but ultimately ask for His will to be done in your life.