POLL: What is the Greatest Error of WL & LC?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Different Gospel= Different than the clearly stated Gospel of the New Testament. Lee taught and preached a different gospel than what was taught and preached by the Lord Jesus and the scripture writing apostles.

Different Jesus= Different Jesus than the Jesus portrayed and quoted in the Gospels of the New Testament. The gospel preached and taught by Witness Lee includes other extra-biblical teachings and concepts. Lee's "processed Triune God" teaches and portrays a different Jesus than is taught and portrayed in the New Testament.
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Thanks. The "different Jesus" is clearer than the "different gospel" point. Can you elaborate a little more of what you mean by a different gospel, that is, how exactly does it differ?

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Can you elaborate a little more of what you mean by a different gospel, that is, how exactly does it differ?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God. (John 3:16-21)

Compare and contrast this Gospel with the gospel of Witness Lee.

If you think the Lee's gospel is the same, I will ask you to supply us with many quotes of Lee over the past 30-40 years of his ministry that comport with the passage I have quoted above. If you cannot easily do this, well then I would say that this is the answer to your question.
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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God. (John 3:16-21)

Compare and contrast this Gospel with the gospel of Witness Lee.

If you think the Lee's gospel is the same, I will ask you to supply us with many quotes of Lee over the past 30-40 years of his ministry that comport with the passage I have quoted above. If you cannot easily do this, well then I would say that this is the answer to your question.
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I have seen a lot of commercials on TV recently with Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham. I thought he was preaching the true gospel, and when I heard him, I would pray for others to believe his message. Now I wonder.

His message did not exactly match the verses above. It was quite different.

Are you now saying that his brief gospel message on TV was a "different gospel?"

[aron]

I don't know about Frank Graham, but WL preached a different gospel. Anytime Matthew 18 principles are overturned and new principles like "drunken Noah" are inserted, it's a different gospel.

There are a lot of pseudo Christian groups like this. The founder/leader cannot, by definition, be wrong. So evils are done in the leader's name, and overlooked. Anyone who points out the obvious is condemned and expelled.

In this, they clearly "hate the light" as UntoHim's quote of John 3 says.

[Ohio]

There is an astronomical difference between "preaching another gospel" for salvation and the abusive authoritarian LSM practices that undermine Biblical principles like Matthew 18, I Cor 6, or I Tim 5. They are two different worlds. Ask Apostle Paul. He only referred to the Judaizers as those who brought "another" gospel, a "different" Spirit, or "another" Jesus. To be clear, Paul was referring to the OT practices of circumcision, Sabbath, Kosher, holidays, etc.

Characterizing WL in this way goes beyond the scripture. Paul did not condemn all his opponents in this way, and neither should we. If so, then Peter in Galatians 2 is a cult leader with another gospel. This is similar to labeling all those that we disagree with as being in a cult. I have never met with a church that was not at one time labeled a cult, heretical, etc. but Christians tend to reserve "another gospel" for the likes of Mormons and JW's.

Even Peter's gospel message in Acts 2 and Acts 3 do not look like John's gospel message in John 3. Ask Boxjobox. John speaks of Jesus as God, the Only Begotten Son, while Peter speaks of a man, who died for us, and was raised from from the dead. Peter demands repentance while John demands believing. Sound real "different."

So is the book of John or the book of Acts the real gospel, and which is "another" gospel? Which is the real Jesus, and which is "another" Jesus? Can I get saved thru the message of Acts 2 and 3, or must I get saved thru the message of John 3? Or are they both bad, and I must get saved thru the message of Romans 10?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There is an astronomical difference between "preaching another gospel" for salvation and the abusive authoritarian LSM practices that undermine Biblical principles like Matthew 18, I Cor 6, or I Tim 5. They are two different worlds. Ask Apostle Paul. He only referred to the Judaizers as those who brought "another" gospel, a "different" Spirit, or "another" Jesus. To be clear, Paul was referring to the OT practices of circumcision, Sabbath, Kosher, holidays, etc.

Forcing Gentile converts to adopt Jewish practices is different from the gospel given in the NT. But it's not the only gospel that is different. Suppose Paul had said, "I am the MOTA. Normal rules of accountability like what Jesus taught in Matthew 18 don't apply to me. That's only for the small potatoes." He'd be preaching a different gospel.

Suppose in Acts 4 & 5, when they sold properties, and laid the proceeds at Peter's feet, then he opened a ski area on Mount Hermon, and put his family members in charge. Then, when they asked where the money went, he said, "That's my personal business." That would be a different gospel.

Suppose Philip put family members in charge of his ministry office, and then they started abusing church members, and Philip had the victims relocated, and witnesses expelled from church fellowship. Then Philip would be preaching a different gospel.

I don't care how impressive their messages seem. If they act like that, then they hate the light, as John 3 says, and they preach a gospel of darkness. When the light becomes dark, how great is the darkness. Now, we all are short of God's glory. But that is why James says, "Don't be many teachers, because you fall under greater condemnation." It's bad enough being a sinner trying to make it home. Don't make it worse by saying you are the Grand Pooh-Bah, that you have a separate set of rules because the 'light' has shown you this. That's a false light, and a different gospel.

https://laist.com/2020/04/14/la-luz-...on-profile.php

How bad does it have to get, before people start to realize, "Something ain't right here"? Apparently it has to get really, really bad.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Forcing Gentile converts to adopt Jewish practices is different from the gospel given in the NT. But it's not the only gospel that is different. Suppose Paul had said, "I am the MOTA. Normal rules of accountability like what Jesus taught in Matthew 18 don't apply to me. That's only for the small potatoes." He'd be preaching a different gospel.

You fail to distinguish between falsifying the way of salvation and abusive leadership. Jesus said "I am the way," but with another gospel, the way of salvation is taken away and replaced. In Paul's time that replacement was OT practices such as circumcision. What is "really bad" is when people go to hell because they trusted in dead works and not the blood of Jesus.

I hate to see abusive and fleshly practices by rotten leaders too. There is no way to justify or coverup this stuff. But even Jimmy Swaggert, with his own motel laiazons, still preached the gospel of Christ, believing in the desth and resurrection of Jesus our Savior. These are personal failures that bring shame to His wonderful name, but his followers at least hear good news.

This in no way justifies the sins of ministers. They are held to a higher standard. Discipline for their sins should be made public. But where do we draw the line. If the message of every preacher is discredited by his sin, then there is no more gospel.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Thanks. The "different Jesus" is clearer than the "different gospel" point. Can you elaborate a little more of what you mean by a different gospel, that is, how exactly does it differ?

The context for Paul's use of this phrase "different gospel" was the Judaizers message who preached that we must be circumcised in order to be saved. This occurred in Antioch resulting in the Acts 15 council. This happened to the Galatian believers who were subsequently lost. This was a constant struggle in the Gentile world after they heard Paul's gospel. Nearly every book of the NT shows the struggle between the true gospel of grace, and the "different gospel" brought by the Judaizers.