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[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Personality is also evident at or immediately after birth. Any parent can testify that "he/she came out [insert personality trait here]." After all, we're talking about a human being here.

A human being dependent upon another human being (i.e. baby siphoning off nutrients) doesn't mean in any way that it's not a separate human being. Just because there is a dependency or connection doesn't mean it's not a person with its own life. You know that.

The rape scenario is a specific percentage of the preceding events to abortion. It doesn't deal with many other scenarios. And while I don't think anyone here discounts the horror, pain, suffering, and trauma that comes from something as evil as rape, the logic being thrown around here is "I was raped, therefore I get to murder someone".

Doesn't work.

We should be looking at providing the support, care, counseling, belonging, and safety that a rape victim needs, rather than adding to the evil by capping the rape off with a murder.

If we say "Other’s cant control what a woman does with her body. Others cant decide for her" then we are deluding even ourselves. ALL laws determine what we can do with our body. The speed limit laws control how far I can press my foot down on an accelerator. The crosswalk lights determine if I walk or wait. The laws against murder determine whether or not I can pull the trigger of a weapon pointed at a person. We are not free to do whatever we want with our bodies no matter what. There are always boundaries.

Unsafe sex, sex outside of a stable marriage, premature sex, etc.....doesn't give anyone the right to murder the result of those mistaken actions. "You might be an inconvenience" or "you might have a hard life" or "you might have physical or mental difficulties" doesn't justify "I get to murder you". That is the exact same slide Hitler jumped down. Anyone who doesn't "cut it" dies.

After reading this post it makes me wonder if you've ever had kids. Also, I don't think you've ever had to deal with women who wanted to have an abortion. Not to mention that some of what you say is nonsense.

I've had 3 kids, and had to bear much pressure on 2 of the mothers that wanted to abort. I can tell you without reservation that a woman can be very stubborn if they put their mind to it.

And y'all all can keep harping on it, and bring women's reproductive rights under government control, throwing women behind bars, but with abortion pills now available, and how to make them for underground use, the cat is already and clearly way out of the bag. Good luck with that. Plus, the court has made abortion legal.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by awareness

After reading this post it makes me wonder if you've ever had kids. Also, I don't think you've ever had to deal with women who wanted to have an abortion. Not to mention that some of what you say is nonsense.

I've had 3 kids, and had to bear much pressure on 2 of the mothers that wanted to abort. I can tell you without reservation that a woman can be very stubborn if they put their mind to it.

And y'all all can keep harping on it, and bring women's reproductive rights under government control, throwing women behind bars, but with abortion pills now available, and how to make them for underground use, the cat is already and clearly way out of the bag. Good luck with that. Plus, the court has made abortion legal.

Care to elaborate with reasoned and logical counter-arguments where my "nonsense" was?

Your reasoning seems to be "my wife was stubborn, therefore all women should be able to kill babies". As usual, I'm writing for the readers to see the rationale behind both sides.

The court making something legal doesn't make it right or not a sin. Doesn't mean we can't still talk about it here.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Care to elaborate with reasoned and logical counter-arguments where my "nonsense" was? As usual, I'm writing for the readers to see the rational behind both sides.

The court making something legal doesn't make it right or not a sin.

This hits at the core of the matter of abortion. As long as we can get it legalized, whether thru legislation or judicial activism, then it is all OK. But it's not.

Unfortunately, the healthy conscience of man/woman is connected to the law of God. He put "eternity in our heart," which aligns our moral compass with the nature of God. That's why so many girls suffer long term guilt after an abortion, but have you noticed that is a subject none are willing to respond to? It is only an orchestrated collection of calloused hearts, fueled by atheism, self-love, and drugs, that can reduce the murder of an unborn infant in the womb to an "inconvenience."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Care to elaborate with reasoned and logical counter-arguments where my "nonsense" was?

I really didn't want to get into it all.

Originally Posted by Trapped

Your reasoning seems to be "my wife was stubborn, therefore all women should be able to kill babies".

A baby is a baby because it's born. That's when it has rights equal to its mom, and all the rest of us. Before that, it's the mom to be that has rights.

Originally Posted by Trapped

The court making something legal doesn't make it right or not a sin.

Maybe you didn't catch it, and maybe I've failed to point out that I'm against abortion. I just think that the decision is up to the adult involved, who clearly, legally, has rights, that shouldn't be infringed. If it's sin, then that's between God and the one that aborts. Like you've pointed out, it's God's life. And He may not care as much as you. Have you ever considered that you might be jumping the gun on God?

And sorry for not elaborating on my nonsense statement. Maybe it will come up again.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

A baby is a baby because it's born. That's when it has rights equal to its mom, and all the rest of us. Before that, it's the mom to be that has rights.

Since when does the rights of one deny the rights of another?

But you guys can't even get your own story straight. Before it was posted that as long as the unborn child is a "parasite" off the mother, drawing all subsistence from the mom, then it has no "rights." So the child can be killed up until it is weaned? Sounds a lot like VA Gov "Black Face" Northam.

What if we can get the unborn child on life support within the womb, then can the child have "rights?"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Since when does the rights of one deny the rights of another?

But you guys can't even get your own story straight. Before it was posted that as long as the unborn child is a "parasite" off the mother, drawing all subsistence from the mom, then it has no "rights." So the child can be killed up until it is weaned? Sounds a lot like VA Gov "Black Face" Northam.

What if we can get the unborn child on life support within the womb, then can the child have "rights?"

Ask the courts.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Since when does the rights of one deny the rights of another?"

My being above age 21 prevents my younger sister age 20 from drinking legally. just kidding..

Roe vs Wade does have some conditions though, like not aborting in third trimester or was that a previous law? Because it’s easier to get rid of a mass of cells than a full blown fetus.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Because it’s easier to get rid of a mass of cells than a full blown fetus.

From what I've heard out here those cells are a full blown baby. If only they could see what they are calling a baby.

How many fourteen and nine year olds will you have to sacrifice for a few newborns? Why make a big fuss about children who are never born when you treat the ones who have been so poorly? Like children locked in cages, separated from their families by Trump Administration and children trying to escape from gangs or dying in Mexico. Foster youth homes who have no say and no love under Social Services.

Also, forcing women to carry a rapist’s child is cruel. Forcing women to carry to term despite the knowledge they will suffer serious health complications (such as genetic disorders or rare diseases) is cruel.

True Christians are in a minority. Not many people genuinely follow God’s word.