Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree. Politicians love to build monuments to themselves. We should remember and honor great ideas and great speeches rather than great monuments.

But anarchists have no right to tear them down. They did nothing to put them up. First comes monuments, then buildings, then ideas, then people. This is what the Hitler Fascists, the Mao Communists, the Lenin Marxists, and the Stalin Communists have also done. The goal is never a better country, but destruction of the current country, all to put these unelected people in charge.

Think George Orwell's 1984
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

Kind of reminds me of LC groupthink on a much larger scale

[Ohio]

TIM ALLEN - ON TRUMP ...

Whatever your feelings for Trump, these are some interesting points that Tim Allen makes. Put your hatred aside and think about these observations. Tim Allen is credited with writing this. Here are some interesting points to think about prior to 2020, especially to my friends on the fence, like moderate Democrats, Libertarians and Independents and the never Trump Republicans and those thinking of "walking away" from the Democratic party.

• Women are upset at Trump’s naughty words -- they also bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray.

• Not one feminist has defended Sarah Sanders. It seems women’s rights only matter if those women are liberal.

• No Border Walls. No voter ID laws. Did you figure it out yet? But wait... there's more.

• Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege.

• And just like that, they went from being against foreign interference in our elections to allowing non-citizens to vote in our elections.

• President Trump’s wall costs less than the Obamacare website. Let that sink in, America.

• We are one election away from open borders, socialism, gun confiscation, and full-term abortion nationally. We are fighting evil.

• They sent more troops and armament to arrest Roger Stone than they sent to defend Benghazi.

• 60 years ago, Venezuela was 4th on the world economic freedom index. Today, they are 179th and their citizens are dying of starvation. In only 10 years, Venezuela was destroyed by democratic socialism.

• Russia donated $0.00 to the Trump campaign. Russia donated $145,600,000 to the Clinton Foundation. But Trump was the one investigated!

• Nancy Pelosi invited illegal aliens to the State of the Union. President Trump Invited victims of illegal aliens to the State of the Union. Let that sink in.

• A socialist is basically a communist who doesn’t have the power to take everything from their citizens at gunpoint ... Yet!

• How do you walk 3000 miles across Mexico without food or support and show up at our border 100 pounds overweight and with a cellphone?

• Alexandria Ocasio Cortez wants to ban cars, ban planes, give out universal income and thinks socialism works. She calls Donald Trump crazy.

• Bill Clinton paid $850,000 to Paula Jones to get her to go away. I don’t remember the FBI raiding his lawyer’s office.

• I wake up every day and I am grateful that Hillary Clinton is not the president of the United States of America.

• The same media that told me Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning now tells me Trump’s approval ratings are low.

• “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”— Margaret Thatcher

• Maxine Waters opposes voter ID laws; She thinks that they are racist. You need to have a photo ID to attend her town hall meetings.

• President Trump said — "They’re not after me. They’re after you. I’m just in their way."

Read that again.

[awareness]

Look what happens when bumping into something you want to hear :

The comedian and actor Tim Allen wrote a lengthy Facebook post that attacked liberals and Democratic politicians and was shared widely in August 2019.

Misattributed

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...rals-facebook/

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Look what happens when bumping into something you want to hear :

The comedian and actor Tim Allen wrote a lengthy Facebook post that attacked liberals and Democratic politicians and was shared widely in August 2019.

Misattributed

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...rals-facebook/

Fact checkers like Snopes need additional corroboration before I accept anything they publish. But whether Allen was the source or not, I notice that you have accepted all the other statements as facts?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Fact checkers like Snopes need additional corroboration before I accept anything they publish. But whether Allen was the source or not, I notice that you have accepted all the other statements as facts?

Projecting yet again ...

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Fact checkers like Snopes need additional corroboration before I accept anything they publish. But whether Allen was the source or not, I notice that you have accepted all the other statements as facts?

Snopes, factcheck.org, Reuters, politifact.com, misbar.com, and more.

Seems that Reuters gave a lot of specific references to unnamed sources from times before Tim Allen's name was ever attributed to the list. And no one has a site to the list actually coming from Tim Allen, just claims that he did post it. (And he says he didn't.)

Sort of like the popular attribution of the statement "Always preach the gospel; if necessary, use words" to St. Francis of Assissi. It never happened. But because someone (Chuck Swindoll) said it back in the early 1990s, everyone is now saying it is true.

As for the content of the list, it has nice sound bites. But none of them are as
meaningful as the contextless snippets seem to suggest.

For example, "President Trump’s wall costs less than the Obamacare website." Referring to the cost of the repairs to the 200 existing miles of wall/fence, or the roughly 50 miles of new fence? The information on how much has actually been spent on the wall that was never officially financed is sketchy at best. If you are suggesting that the government is good at wasting money, that is a cross-party problem. Deficits increase under all presidents.

Or how about "Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege." And the point is? I don't see a point. Just a bare fact. And it relates to Trump how? It says what about anything? Just a cold fact (assuming it is true) that makes no political statement. If the comment about Chelsea is supposed to say something about getting paid for being a Clinton, then how about Bushes all getting into the best schools, and mostly avoiding war, and then getting high-level jobs. No chance GHWB's credentials had anything to do with any of it?

A couple of the comments were noteworthy, though Tim Allen didn't post any of them. The one from Margaret Thatcher about socialism running out of other people's money is true. Yet the answer is not to simply be Scrooge and snarl at the poor and disadvantaged. You actually need to find something that helps without breaking the piggy bank. So ultimately, since Republicans tend to be "let them eat cake" kind of thinkers, you need some liberals around to raise the issues and come up with the start of solutions that pragmatic heads can bring down to earth so we actually do something that is both helpful and sustainable.

And while referencing Thatcher's statement, was that a well-researched statement that represented a comprehensive thumbs-down to liberal ideas en masse? Or was it a political statement made to rile up a conservative base during times of upheaval or election or in response to a particular liberal attempt to just do everything they think of? Just like in America, sound bites catch people's minds, but they are often not of real substance. Sort of like eating twinkies. They may taste good, but they have little nutritive value.

Just being snarky at the "other side" is not a solution. And it goes for the Bernies and AOCs on the left as well. That list — wherever it came from — does provide a few things to think about or look into. But it is not as meaningful as the typical Republican thinks it is. Instead, it points to the simple minds that think a few snarky words are sufficient to establish truth.
I'm getting flooded with ads, emails, and texts from both sides. And there are some similarities in the use of these kinds of simplistic statements at times. But this year the greater percentage of garbage statements has been coming from the Trump campaign. I've been tempted to answer their questionnaires, but I don't think they want my answers.

[Ohio]

These "snarky" comments were never designed to "establish truth" as you say, rather to make people think, though that is lost on you.

I find this quite provocative -- more armed agents were sent to arrest Roger Stone than to rescue Americans at our embassy.

"If you did not have such double standards, you would have none at all."

[Ohio]

Don'cha just hate when this happens . . .

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

These "snarky" comments were never designed to "establish truth" as you say, rather to make people think, though that is lost on you.

I find this quite provocative -- more armed agents were sent to arrest Roger Stone than to rescue Americans at our embassy.

"If you did not have such double standards, you would have none at all."

For the record : Tim Dick ... a comedian ... and an arch Trump supporting conservative.

I've always liked Tim. I consider him a smart guy. Back in the 90's I read is book : I'm not Really Here ; his philosophical take on Quantum Physics. I've got his book on one of my many book shelves -- the book is now worth over $300. BTW, it's my domain name : imnothere.org.

I really like his TV comedy show, Last Man Standing. I remember the brouhaha when ABC declined to renew the 7th season ; conservatives got all up in arms claiming it was canceled because Tim is a Trump supporting conservative -- in fact, Ohio, who doesn't watch the show, had to ring in on it out here. I didn't buy it ; his 3 daughters on the show were democrats. To me the show was/is fair and balanced. Seems conservatives like to play the victim. Turns out that wasn't the reason the show was canceled by ABC.

But that doesn't matter. Now a conservative cooked up this list, claiming to be by Tim Allen. And Ohio has jumped on this band wagon it again. I wonder way?