Partial Rapture And Dispensational Punishment

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Great list of the many raptures, Carol!

Concerning partial rapture, what about the promise to the church in Philadelphia to save them out of the "hour of trial", which I take to mean the tribulation period? If one thinks there will be one big pre-trib rapture of all the saints, then maybe this promise would seem to apply to everyone. But why would He single out the "church of love" (Philadelphia means love; and the only church besides Smyrna that didn't get a reprimand) with what appears to be a special promise just to them, to keep them from that hour? (that is, if the promise was to keep all Christians from that testing time)

Thanks for reading the list and getting something out of it STG. Now to your question let me start by saying UH OH! Gulp! What I'm going to share is something very, very few Christians have given any thought to. I did not realize what I will share until 6 months ago. So this is very, very new insight. I myself am still processing it.

So let me begin. First take a good look at Revelation 3:8-11 Read it slowly a few times if need be.

‘I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

9 Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

10 Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

11 I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

So like everyone who has read Revelation 2 & 3 and studied it under Christian teachers, we have been conditioned to believe that because the scriptures say: To the 7 churches etc..., it is written to the Gentile Christian church, it is written to us. Watchman Nee wrote a very interesting take on the churches in his book 'The orthodoxy of the church'. The first time I read it, I was very intrigued by it. The next time around, I found some of it biased. Of course Lee had edited the original text I think.. Either way, it was about the gentile church..Smyrna suffered, Thyatira was/is the RCC, Laodecia the lukewarm church...

But here's some food for thought: What does the gentile church have to do with the synagogue of Satan? The scripture states: Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

I have read many opinions of what that means.

Now take a look at Revelation 7:2-4

I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

When we depart, we will be passing the baton if you will to the 144,000 Jewish bondservants from the tribes of ISRAEL. So if you think outside the box, it looks like God is speaking to the 144k in Revelation 3:9 not to 'us'.

I know this thought is wayyyyy, wayyy out there. You might be scratching your head saying "What planet are your from??"

There is a lot more to the 7 churches but to your question, I will just say I no longer believe the letters to the 7 churches were/are written to us. They are written to the 144,000 Israelites from the 12 tribes of Israel who have the seal of God on their foreheads. They believe in Christ as the Messiah. But the Jews who are from the synagogue of Satan do not. They are like the Pharisees and Saducees.
But God says: I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you. Do you really think He is talking to us??? We are already out of here. And now God is going to rescue Israel, His wife. He has always loved Israel. They should have been the first to go. But they rejected Jesus..and thus the first (Israel) shall be last and the last (the gentile church) shall be first.

There is a book called "Kingdom of priests" you can download
A Kingdom of Priests (Kindle, FREE):
https://tinyurl.com/AKingdomOfPriests...

OR
Smashwords eBooks (FREE):
https://tinyurl.com/BrendaWeltnerSmas...

OR
for a small fee you can purchase the book from Amazon
A Kingdom of Priests: The Stories of Revelation (Paperback):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08...

you can also watch the teachings on you tube:
The Tribulation:
https://youtu.be/fjiBEvj-3gM

and there is a playlist of about 16-17 short videos on
Letters to the 7 Churches Playlist:
https://tinyurl.com/BWeltner7Churches

It took guts for me to share what I did because this is stuff we have never been taught. Blessings to all as we see the day soon approaching.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

It took guts for me to share what I did because this is stuff we have never been taught. Blessings to all as we see the day soon approaching.

Breathe, Carole! Good points.

Nell

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Thanks for reading the list and getting something out of it STG. Now to your question let me start by saying UH OH! Gulp! What I'm going to share is something very, very few Christians have given any thought to. I did not realize what I will share until 6 months ago. So this is very, very new insight. I myself am still processing it.

It took guts for me to share what I did because this is stuff we have never been taught. Blessings to all as we see the day soon approaching.

Thanks for sharing! I'll put that in the ol' "pipe" and smoke on it. My first impression is - why would He write it only to the Jewish churches? All the churches being written to are in Asia, and considered Gentile churches, are they not? (there were often a number of Jewish believers in those churches) And Paul's observation that there is neither Jew nor Greek and that we are all one in Christ. Philadelphia had many Jews there, but it was Roman City. Old Covenant practicing Jews were always "spying out" the freedoms their believing kinsmen had, therefore that this was also happening in Philadelphia isn't unique.

But it is something to consider. I remember an older, learned brother a few years ago said that he'd seen that the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 was actually speaking about the Jewish believers. He went into the history of how the wedding feast was carried out back then, with all the different parties and customs. I'm still chewing on all that (back-burner stuff). And I hear different ones apply this concept to different passages, that is, that it pertains specifically and only to Jews and not anyone else.

If this is the case, may the Lord show us what He will in this matter.

[countmeworthy]

It is true there is no Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus. But Paul was not given the vision of the Tribulation. It was first given to Jesus to give to His bond-servants. Correct me if I'm wrong here but when "bond-servants" are mentioned in the scriptures, they are referred to as the Jewish Israelites.

So in Revelation 1:1 we read that
God gave the Revelation of Jesus Christ to His bond-servant John to show to His bond-servants through an angel of the things which must soon take place.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

We gentiles are privileged to see the future as the Jewish people have not read Revelation. Not that we understand it all..but it is the Christian church who has been trying to figure it all out.

Just remember JOHN the apostle was given the entire vision of the book of Revelation, not Paul.

As to the 10 virgins.. yes, your more 'seasoned' brother is correct that they are Jewish people. See. Jesus disciples were all Jewish. He came to the Jews first. We have been led to believe by not just the LC but by Christian preachers, 5 of the virgins were fake Christians for they did not have oil (the Holy Spirit) in their lamps. Or those 5 virgins let their oil run out, meaning they became lukewarm. But.. even though the Jews do not read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not everything in the gospels applies to us. Jesus was telling His followers their future. He knew that in time, it was going to be the gentiles that were going to take the gospel to the world, not the Jews.

But it will be their job through the 144,000k of the 12 tribes of Israel and the 2 witnesses to take the gospel to the world during the Tribulation.

So the virgins in Matthew 25 are the friends of the bridegroom..not the bride. The Bride is inside with the Bridegroom.

There is more I can share but this is enough for now.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Thanks for sharing! I'll put that in the ol' "pipe" and smoke on it. My first impression is - why would He write it only to the Jewish churches? All the churches being written to are in Asia, and considered Gentile churches, are they not? (there were often a number of Jewish believers in those churches) And Paul's observation that there is neither Jew nor Greek and that we are all one in Christ. Philadelphia had many Jews there, but it was Roman City. Old Covenant practicing Jews were always "spying out" the freedoms their believing kinsmen had, therefore that this was also happening in Philadelphia isn't unique.

But it is something to consider. I remember an older, learned brother a few years ago said that he'd seen that the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 was actually speaking about the Jewish believers. He went into the history of how the wedding feast was carried out back then, with all the different parties and customs. I'm still chewing on all that (back-burner stuff). And I hear different ones apply this concept to different passages, that is, that it pertains specifically and only to Jews and not anyone else.

If this is the case, may the Lord show us what He will in this matter.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

It is true there is no Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus. But Paul was not given the vision of the Tribulation. It was first given to Jesus to give to His bond-servants. Correct me if I'm wrong here but when "bond-servants" are mentioned in the scriptures, they are referred to as the Jewish Israelites.

So in Revelation 1:1 we read that
God gave the Revelation of Jesus Christ to His bond-servant John to show to His bond-servants through an angel of the things which must soon take place.

Had not heard that, re: "bond servants" being only Jews. Has anybody else heard this before?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Had not heard that, re: "bond servants" being only Jews. Has anybody else heard this before?

The Nazarites in Numbers 6 were bond servants, but the N.T. also refers to the disciples as slaves/bond servants in many places.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Nazarites in Numbers 6 were bond servants, but the N.T. also refers to the disciples as slaves/bond servants in many places.

So it means only Jews could be bond-servants - as the point is being made about the Lord's speaking in Rev 1?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So it means only Jews could be bond-servants - as the point is being made about the Lord's speaking in Rev 1?

I'm not buying that.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Nazarites in Numbers 6 were bond servants, but the N.T. also refers to the disciples as slaves/bond servants in many places.

True. The disciples were Jews. And was not the early church composed of mostly converted Jews? I don't see where the converted gentiles are called bond-servants in the flesh so to speak. It does not mean I am correct. I could be wrong. Just saying and noting what I am observing.