What a Lack of Increase Really Means for the LC

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I saw recently that their latest thing is called "ministry propagation" and they have a whole website dedicated to talking about promoting the sale of ministry books, how run a church bookroom, etc.

As the different type of promotions get more and more absurd, it seems evident that any reasonable person would see right through it. I suspect many LCers do. I know with things like PSRP, despite how much it was promoted, it never really caught on. No one really spoke out against it, but just rejected it by not participating.

My "favorite" (note the tongue cemented in my cheek) thing to come out of LSM recently is what they call the "Ministry Digest".

The website (https://www.lsm.org/ministry-digest/) says the goal of the Ministry Digest is:

1. to help the saints enter into the riches of the CWWL, and
2. to provide ministry content for the churches in their corporate weekly pursuit.

So....it's a separate book to help the saints get into a set of books. It's books on books. And I thought the HWMR contained ministry content for their corporate weekly pursuit? Are you saying they need ministry content beyond the weekly HWMR and beyond the actual ministry content busting out of all their bookshelves? It's ridiculous.

The best part is there is an actual subscription for it: effortless cha-ching!

How the saints don't see through it all yet is absolutely beyond me.

I also recall a number of years back there was some kind of little propagation meeting during one of the trainings.....one of Kerry Robichaux's young sons was tapped to stand on stage and promote a mini pocket version of the Life-Study of something. Exodus, maybe. As if the standard size was what was preventing the saints from reading it.

The main topic of conversation after the propagation meeting? Not what was promoted, that's for sure. It was how much Kerry's son's stage-mannerisms and tone were a mirror imitation of his dad. Did the wowee-zowee mini-Life-Study thing take off? Not that I recall. They just keep digging stuff out of their trash cans and spray painting it. Sigh.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

So....it's a separate book to help the saints get into a set of books... they need ministry content beyond the weekly HWMR and beyond the actual ministry content busting out of all their bookshelves?

The new ministry content is to help you get into the old content. It's also a weak cover for the fact that there's actually no more new ministry content being produced - the Great Man is gone, the Seer has been entombed, and the Age of Revelation is over. (We're still waiting for any Bible verse showing us how an age of human history turned, just like that). Kind of difficult if you're a book publisher with nothing new to say.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Trapped

My "favorite" (note the tongue cemented in my cheek) thing to come out of LSM recently is what they call the "Ministry Digest".

The website (https://www.lsm.org/ministry-digest/) says the goal of the Ministry Digest is:

1. to help the saints enter into the riches of the CWWL, and
2. to provide ministry content for the churches in their corporate weekly pursuit.

So....it's a separate book to help the saints get into a set of books. It's books on books. And I thought the HWMR contained ministry content for their corporate weekly pursuit? Are you saying they need ministry content beyond the weekly HWMR and beyond the actual ministry content busting out of all their bookshelves? It's ridiculous.

The best part is there is an actual subscription for it: effortless cha-ching!

How the saints don't see through it all yet is absolutely beyond me.

That especially can be said for the people who have been around for awhile. A lot of them already have most of the books to begin with, so I guess they don't mind buying things twice.

The thing that LSM just can't seem to come to terms with is that all the books are already available for people to purchase if they want to. If books really just aren't selling they might just want to take a step back and consider why that might be the case.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Trapped

How the saints don't see through it all yet is absolutely beyond me.

I also had a comment on this. Yes, why don't they see it? I've come to realize that this is pretty much just human nature. We all fall into a certain pattern of beliefs and habits which seem to serve us well. And even when they start to not serve us well, we humans tend not to give up ideas and habits very easily. They are what we know and are just comfortable. This applies to all sorts of things.

Many mindless habits and patterns serve us well - daily teeth brushing, for instance. In the extreme, we'd all go a little crazy (at lest I would) if things were completely new and different all the time (chaos), so we like to have solid, established patterns to follow. And this then builds up a strong system of thought over time, one that's very hard to penetrate. This is why people in one political camp have so much trouble believing anything that is even a little different from their set beliefs, and will often vilify those in the other political party at the drop of a hat! I find this both frustrating and a little amusing . . . (i.e., amused at our fallen human condition - thinking we know so much)

But praise God, He is the One that can shine light to penetrate these strongholds!

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I also had a comment on this. Yes, why don't they see it? I've come to realize that this is pretty much just human nature. We all fall into a certain pattern of beliefs and habits which seem to serve us well. And even when they start to not serve us well, we humans tend not to give up ideas and habits very easily. They are what we know and are just comfortable. This applies to all sorts of things.

Many mindless habits and patterns serve us well - daily teeth brushing, for instance. In the extreme, we'd all go a little crazy (at lest I would) if things were completely new and different all the time (chaos), so we like to have solid, established patterns to follow. And this then builds up a strong system of thought over time, one that's very hard to penetrate. This is why people in one political camp have so much trouble believing anything that is even a little different from their set beliefs, and will often vilify those in the other political party at the drop of a hat! I find this both frustrating and a little amusing . . . (i.e., amused at our fallen human condition - thinking we know so much)

But praise God, He is the One that can shine light to penetrate these strongholds!

I think that it could be said that many LC members are dependent upon something that the LC has to offer. Meaning even if they are 99% percent disillusioned with the whole thing, they keep coming back for more of whatever it is that's keeping them there.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I think that it could be said that many LC members are dependent upon something that the LC has to offer. Meaning even if they are 99% percent disillusioned with the whole thing, they keep coming back for more of whatever it is that's keeping them there.

"friendships". Social interaction. Belonging. Food.

The pull is strong.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

"friendships". Social interaction. Belonging. Food.

The pull is strong.

The most powerful force of the LC is it's mental conditioning of members against other believers. They really believe, "There is nowhere else to go."

Originally Posted by Trapped

Because even if they do somehow manage to walk through the doors of a "denomination" or "so-called church" one Sunday, or a few Sundays in a row, they still have to contend with the ingrained judgmental attitude that can be hard to beat.

"Oh, their music is contemporary"
"Oh, they just have one man speaking"
"That graphic on the screen feels like leaven"
"They didn't mention God's economy even once"
"That pastor seems to be drumming up emotion rather than the reality of Christ as life"

And on and on and on, and it makes it almost impossible to just sit there and take it in.

I left the LC and reflexively went straight back into mainstream Christian fellowship. I had been meeting there before and didn't want to lose that connection. But I would (in my head) judge everything I saw and heard. "Oh, that's not God's economy" after a sermon that had brought the house into God's presence. And so forth. I did nothing but pick nits. All of it, mind you, warranted. Christianity is, in fact, pretty awful. But it's where the believers are.

And the LC, unable to see or appreciate its own defects, and existing solely to point out those of others, is far worse. You could have the best local expression imaginable in a community church or un-named fellowship, and you'd think, "Oh, they're not meeting on the local ground", ignoring the fact that "the local ground" really means "affiliated with the ministries of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee." No, ignore the beam in your own eye and find the mote in the other's.

The LC members are so pickled in this brine that they struggle to find any alternative life. Even when they admit the glory is gone from the LC (I daresay it never was there, but was a chimera) they stay.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

"friendships". Social interaction. Belonging. Food.

The pull is strong.

Originally Posted by aron

The most powerful force of the LC is it's mental conditioning of members against other believers. They really believe, "There is nowhere else to go."

aron is simply projecting his own mindset on the entire movement. I understand it, because I was also affected that way. Nothing, however, is quite that homogeneous.

I was in the LC's 30 years. I saw that diversity. I knew many members who never spoke in the meetings. They were there because of momentum, social or family relations. Many members paid no attention to endless doctrine in the meetings. Many never went to trainings. They loved the social outings and special events. The church-life to them was family and "friendships". Social interaction. Belonging. Food.

For them there was no mental conditioning.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

aron is simply projecting his own mindset on the entire movement.

No, you're right. I should have put in a number of qualifiers.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I was in the LC's 30 years. I saw that diversity. I knew many members who never spoke in the meetings. They were there because of momentum, social or family relations. Many members paid no attention to endless doctrine in the meetings. Many never went to trainings. They loved the social outings and special events. The church-life to them was family and "friendships". Social interaction. Belonging. Food.

One really has to wonder – if LC members were surveyed and answered honestly, how many would fall into this category?

Another point is that not all the members in such a category started out that way. Some of them were highly active and then just got to a point where they could care less about hearing the same recycled messages over and over. Some people leave because of that and some don’t, but really it’s all the same realization the people come to – they see right through it.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I was in the LC's 30 years. I saw that diversity. I knew many members who never spoke in the meetings. They were there because of momentum, social or family relations. Many members paid no attention to endless doctrine in the meetings. Many never went to trainings. They loved the social outings and special events. The church-life to them was family and "friendships". Social interaction. Belonging. Food.

For them there was no mental conditioning.

Ohio, yes I could see that too. Parents in the same locality since 1979. Now with all my siblings living considerable distance away, I'm thankful for the social interaction my mom has. In their retirement years it's the social interaction that beneficial for my parents.
I would say there is mental conditioning. That is conditioning in relying on "what the brothers say". Just as with the current event, also in the local churches it is adverse to think for yourself and to decide for yourself. Instead outwardly in the local churches brothers and sisters are like sheep not exercising their cognitive faculties.
Brothers and sisters are conditioned not to fraternize with former members, but to avoid them out of fear of being poisoned. Seems not that different from other sectarian groups like the Exclusive Brethren.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by aron

The most powerful force of the LC is it's mental conditioning of members against other believers. They really believe, "There is nowhere else to go."



I left the LC and reflexively went straight back into mainstream Christian fellowship. I had been meeting there before and didn't want to lose that connection. But I would (in my head) judge everything I saw and heard. "Oh, that's not God's economy" after a sermon that had brought the house into God's presence.

They say "there is nowhere else to go". There are plenty of places to go. The catch is having to start all over building church "social interactions". It's easy to go meet at a church where you know at least one person.
I wonder if "that's not God's Economy" is a programmed default answer when it comes to non-LC fellowship. I've heard the same response from others when it comes to various known or unknown minsters.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

They say "there is nowhere else to go". There are plenty of places to go. The catch is having to start all over building church "social interactions". It's easy to go meet at a church where you know at least one person.
I wonder if "that's not God's Economy" is a programmed default answer when it comes to non-LC fellowship. I've heard the same response from others when it comes to various known or unknown minsters.

In the locality that I grew up in as well as some of the nearby localities, there were a lot of instances where people had many family members including extended family in the LC. Lunch in someone's home after a Lord's table meeting might double as a family gathering unless others got invited.