Questions and Concerns for Current and Former LC Members

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Nell

What about the "church kids"? What about those who were raised in the LC and find themselves tortured by what was foisted upon them by others beyond their control? Honestly, I don't know. Some of us made a choice to believe a lie and some of us were taught from childhood to believe a lie.

I don't know that the solution would be different for church kids than it would be for those of us who came to the LC as adults. I don't think it would be a mistake to confess and repent for being deceived as a child. The woman gave a simple answer which is likely the best possible answer.

Like the woman, I also was deceived by the serpent. I repented for my sin. I often pray even now, "Lord, please don't let me be deceived." I don't hold Lee and the LC responsible for what I did. This doesn't let them off the hook. Lee, et al, are in God's hands now...not mine.

Originally Posted by Curious

Dear Nell,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying here. ......

Even if we were brainwashed as children, we are still sinners by nature, owning that means willingness to have a repentant heart. The alternative is fueling our sense of being a victim which does not lead us to trust Jesus.

As a church kid myself, I am not sure I agree here. Adam was told explicitly what not to do, and Eve, although not told directly according to the record in Genesis, had full knowledge of what was not allowed, even going so far as to add prohibition on top of prohibition ("not even to touch it"). They both knew what was right and what was wrong. Given that backdrop, Eve was still deceived and Adam still chose to disobey.

Church kids, however, are taught skewed "rights and wrongs". They don't have the external grounding of truth to which they can compare what they are in. The lies are taught to them as the truth. The lies are even represented as coming from God. Church kids are deceived, yes, but not willfully any way you cut it. Many of them spend their childhood years trying to understand why what is spoken doesn't match up with their surroundings, oftentimes while not even realizing that that's what's going on (in other words, they just know "something's off", but they don't know that there is this mis-match), and have a traumatized mind because of it.

It's spiritual abuse, and in some senses it's also mental abuse because the hypocrisy and double-speak ends up creating an environment where they are being told one thing while living another and yet no one will acknowledge it's happening.

To find out you've been deceived in this way for your whole life is a penetrating shock to the system, the shock waves of which reverberate for a long, long time. If church kids need to repent for being spiritually abused, I just can't get on board with that.

(I know you're not saying church kids must/need/have to repent, rather you seem to be saying, essentially "there's no harm in repenting", but as a church kid whose guilt-meter is also screwed up by being made to feel bad for doing normal human things (having friends, hobbies, smiling, laughing, enjoying music, etc), I'm also very sensitive to the implication that I should repent for something I in no way need to repent for.)

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Trapped

As a church kid myself, I am not sure I agree here.

Trapped,

You have a case, and you articulate it well. I don’t have a case. I just don’t know how this can be made right in this life. You and many more church kids were spiritually abused. Doing harm to a child has to be the worst kind of evil and what happened to you was evil.

There’s a verse in Isaiah “Woe unto them that call evil good...” I get that. The rest of it “...and good evil.” Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil.” You were taught that living a normal life was “evil.” That’s really sick.

Bless you Trapped. I’m so sorry for what happened to you as a child.

Nell

[Curious]

Dear 'Trapped',

Like Nell, I feel the same for you and the harm done to you. So I'm going to give my 2 cents worth.

I'm glad you are sensitive to the implication that you should repent for something you in no way need to repent of. That would exactly perpetuate the abuse and its absolutely healthy that you reject it.

Something I never intended to do was talk about my own bad experiences on this forum. I intended to sit on the sidelines and sound clever and be a detached know-it-all. I'm good at that normally!

However I feel moved to speak on a personal level again.

I had some special Christian counselling/prayer ministry to get me through the abuse that happened in my life. There are parallels between what happened to me and what happens in the LC, except I also was 'blessed' with a couple of broken rib bones, head injuries etc. However, in the main it was spiritual and psychological abuse, which I always thought to be worse and more powerfully harmful than the physical.

The process of prayer ministry I subjected myself to, and still believe very firmly in, required repentance and forgiveness as necessary for the pathway of emotional and spiritual healing. However, the understanding I gained as to what that meant enabled me to repent within a framework of understanding that made it an actual pleasure to renounce and revoke any and all allegiance to the (in my case) passivity that had allowed such misery and mistreatment. It was somehow a clear way of saying 'this was all wrong, I should not have had to suffer this. I was deceived into thinking God required it, and it was a horrible lie. I can let this all go now! Yippeee!'

It was empowering and faith building for me to renounce things I hated at the time and didn't want to have anything to do with anyway. Like you, it was forced upon me, we can't repent of the other person or people's bad choices. But 'repenting' in this circumstance is more a recognition of placing God in sovereignty in our life as a deliberate decision and recognising it would never be His choice to submit us to this abuse.

To further explain, it's an acknowledgement of my vulnerability to having been deceived in a bigger picture and impersonal way. I was born a sinner and prone to deception. I was born into a system of error/neglect etc that I didn't choose because of that same vulnerability existing in those that brought me into this world. There's no shame in that worse than any other aspect of being born a sinner, (in fact, less shame as this truly wasn't our fault, but the fault of the power of sin in this world and in those around us). Renouncing the ways that has hurt me was a huge relief only and not a rubbing-my-nose-in-it exercise.

To conclude, I feel that part of repentance is just that God wants us to acknowledge that we can't do it on our own. Those who hurt us were making that mistake, (even though couched in twisted religious thinking). Without us actively seeking His guidance we all get ourselves into a pickle and sin hurts us when it comes from others, as well as our own sin hurts ourselves and others. Repentance is a choice to let go of faith in ourselves and have faith in God instead, trusting His love for us. Humility is the walking out of this trust in Him in place of trusting ourselves. Being sinners makes us vulnerable to all of this from the outset. That's how I see it and have for a long time now.

I see from your posts that you have great insight and perspective, and you express these very well and clearly. Your wisdom, forged through the trails of abuse and injustice are treasure that exists within you, and are of great worth. I hope what I have shared from my own journey is in some way helpful to you.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

(I know you're not saying church kids must/need/have to repent, rather you seem to be saying, essentially "there's no harm in repenting", but as a church kid whose guilt-meter is also screwed up by being made to feel bad for doing normal human things (having friends, hobbies, smiling, laughing, enjoying music, etc), I'm also very sensitive to the implication that I should repent for something I in no way need to repent for.)

I am not a LC kid, and I have never felt the need to repent for being deceived by those I trusted. It is the leaders and deceivers who should repent, but I'm not holding my breath until that happens. On the other hand, I still have to take ownership for the decisions I have made, even though some of them were coerced by LC leaders. We are also responsible for what we know. That's why many of us have been forced to examine what we have learned. As the word says, "test all things, hold on to the good."

In the end, we all must thank God for our journey. This almost defines the path of faith. Though we may never understand it, He has allowed the good and the bad for our good and His glory. Which one of us has picked our own parents? Sometimes what makes all the difference is our appreciation, our thankfulness, towards Him. The Bible informs us on nearly every page that the journey of faith is filled with trials. None has escaped this. Sometimes just a fleeting thought of thanks towards the Lord can completely change my mindset, and breakdown an inner stronghold.

Many times I catch myself complaining about my own difficulties, and then a thought comes to me, "at least you weren't born in a Muslim family," and perspective returns. Another great "attitude adjustment" is annually going to a special needs bowling event. It's hard to complain about anything in my life after seeing some of these folks. Like the song says, "God is good all the time, all the time God is good."