The Speciality, Generality, and Practicality of the Church Life

[Sons to Glory!]

What is this book about!? (am I transmitting here . . . ?)

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

What is this book about!? (am I transmitting here . . . ?)

According to Lee: “These are things you must know to have a balanced church life”

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

According to Lee: “These are things you must know to have a balanced church life”

No chicken dinner for you!

Someone else wanna give it a try?

What is this book about!?

[Trapped]

OBW - I read a little bit so far. I just have some comments but they won't be a well laid out as yours, and they probably won't be as deep as yours were either. To be honest they are mostly complaints as the more time passes the harder time I have reading anything of Lee or Nee. This is just what I have the time for at present.

The first thing I noticed is the phrase "church life", which was repeated three times in the first three sentences. This is a phrase commonly used within the local churches to refer to itself (i.e. "when I touched the church life" means what would typically be stated as "when I joined ABC Church"). So immediately it seems like Lee is stating that the local churches are special because they hold a Christian faith. This is, as usual, hand-in-hand with the viewpoint in the local churches that they are "it" and are the only expression of the Body, or, excuse me, the "practical" or "proper" expression of the Body.

"God" section: I don't know what the LCs get out of using the phrase "uniquely one" to describe God. I have checked out a number of other churches' statements of faith and they just use the word "one".

His "Christ" section is incredibly difficult to read because it's a handful of words broken up by parenthetical verse references, repeated more times than I can count.

I also noticed too what you said that Lee says things like "genuine believers" or "genuine Christians". It's just another dividing, us-vs-them word.

While he does admit that some may disagree on OCOC, he then essentially calls anyone who does disagree an "improper Christian", by saying as "proper Christians" we have to believe OCOC.

Just a little further down Lee uses another phrases that chaps me, "so-called". The "so-called" Pentecostal people. There is too much haughtiness and arrogance in just the first few pages for me to stomach.

Although I just kept reading and it's interesting that in chapter 3 it gets more tolerable. He talks about the importance of accepting, for example, a Seventh Day Adventist brother comes to the LC and insists on their own keeping of the Sabbath, or accepting weaker saints who are afraid of eating food sacrificed to idols. I don't disagree there.

Sorry if this isn't the kind of response you were looking for; this is just my reaction as I read the first few pages.

StG - While I haven't read the entire book, it has come up often in conversations with LCers who do see issues in the LC. Many try to "come back" to this book as the handbook for how to fix issues and how the church "should be". Essentially the book is supposed to be what things we have to contend for in the church, i.e. what is non-negotiable, what we cannot bend on (speciality), and then what things we can accept as different one from another but do not become contentious over (generality), and then how to carry out the "proper" church life using things that we may not insist on but realize they are the "best" practically for the carrying out of the church, e.g. pray-reading, etc. (practicality).

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Trapped

StG - While I haven't read the entire book, it has come up often in conversations with LCers who do see issues in the LC. Many try to "come back" to this book as the handbook for how to fix issues and how the church "should be". Essentially the book is supposed to be what things we have to contend for in the church, i.e. what is non-negotiable, what we cannot bend on (speciality), and then what things we can accept as different one from another but do not become contentious over (generality), and then how to carry out the "proper" church life using things that we may not insist on but realize they are the "best" practically for the carrying out of the church, e.g. pray-reading, etc. (practicality).

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. Yes, that is perhaps a more detailed explanation, but I think that it can be conveyed in much simpler terms.

My simple take-away from this book was this: We are all one in Christ and should not divide ourselves over things that are not essentials of the faith.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

LEE - The Specialty, Generality, and Practicality of the Church Life In reading this book with some Ohio LC bros (back in the 80s), I had perhaps the strongest bubbling-up enjoyment of the Lord I've ever had.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

My simple take-away from this book was this: We are all one in Christ and should not divide ourselves over things that are not essentials of the faith.

So the strongest bubbling-up enjoyment of the Lord you've ever had was in realizing that we are all one in Christ and should not divide over things that are not essentials of the faith? Christians have been preaching and teaching this for about 2,000 years now...and we all have seen very mixed, if not very limited, success in actually seeing these lofty propositions get expressed in our church life. In looking at the history of the Local Church of Witness Lee, is there any doubt about the mixed and limited results of Lee and his followers?

To be clear, I'm all for the bubbling-up and enjoyment of the Lord! But in my experience and observation (43+years) the teachings and practices taught and fostered by Witness Lee and his followers eventually lead to a very divisive and haughty attitude towards other Christians. And for these reasons I would not recommend this book to any young person or anyone new to the Christian faith.

Here is an excerpt from the Forward to this book written by Benson Phillips:

When the Body of Christ is divided, it loses everything; yet it has been divided again and again, mainly due to the overemphasis of certain beliefs other than those comprising the faith. Concerning the faith we must be very specific and particular, however, concerning the other things we must follow Paul’s example and be general, never insisting that others believe as we do To possess such a spirit of generality is the generality of the church life. If we are special and insist on anything other than the common faith, the oneness will surely be damaged, and divisions will occur.

Did Witness Lee or his followers EVER practice what Benson Phillips wrote here? Talk is cheap - especially super spiritual sounding platitudes coming from people like Benson Phillips, who has never had anything good to say about anybody that doesn't sing the praises of his acting god and deputy authority, Witness Lee. The "oneness" practiced in the Local Church is a bogus oneness. They are all talk and no action.

I love you my dear brother Sons to Glory! But you can keep your chicken dinner if it means that we have to give Nee or Lee credit for practicing what they preached.
-

[Sons to Glory!]

Oh, I'm sorry - I forgot everything on here has to be framed in nonstop Lee bashing! Regarding everything you stated - yes - it may be that many others have preached this and Lee didn't practice it. Nonetheless, it doesn't diminish the enjoyment of the Lord (which you seemed to belittle here bro) I had while reading that book . . . does it? (I think not)

Seriously folks, this thread seems to border on Lee-aphobia or something, to the point that having a simple back & forth isn't easy. Can't we just have a discussion without instantly going from zero to 100 MPH extremes?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

The first thing I noticed is the phrase "church life", which was repeated three times in the first three sentences. This is a phrase commonly used within the local churches to refer to itself (i.e. "when I touched the church life" means what would typically be stated as "when I joined ABC Church"). So immediately it seems like Lee is stating that the local churches are special because they hold a Christian faith. This is, as usual, hand-in-hand with the viewpoint in the local churches that they are "it" and are the only expression of the Body, or, excuse me, the "practical" or "proper" expression of the Body.

"God" section: I don't know what the LCs get out of using the phrase "uniquely one" to describe God. I have checked out a number of other churches' statements of faith and they just use the word "one".

His "Christ" section is incredibly difficult to read because it's a handful of words broken up by parenthetical verse references, repeated also noticed too what you said that Lee says things like "genuine believers" or "genuine Christians". It's just another dividing, us-vs-them word.

While he does admit that some may disagree on OCOC, he then essentially calls anyone who does disagree an "improper Christian", by saying as "proper Christians" we have to believe OCOC.

Just a little further down Lee uses another phrases that chaps me, "so-called". The "so-called" Pentecostal people. There is too much haughtiness and arrogance in just the first few pages for me to stomach..

Trapped,

I agree that Lee's work is shot through with a tone of judgment and sectarian division, using code words like "genuine", "proper" and whatnot to control the flock. If you look at any HWMR outline it's littered with such stock phrases, reinforcing the prior mental conditioning that what is "in" (the fabled "church life") is good and desirable, and what is "outside" is at best to be tolerated. (But the fire-breathers have permission to reject everything but the words of ministry).

Yet only Jesus is "proper" and "genuine". That is at the root of the gospel and our Christian faith. To somehow wrap ourselves in this mantle, whilst pushing others away, is self-deception. And these books strike me as such.

Again, I also am much self-deceived. But I'm not selling my books and starting training centers. I'm just pointing out why this book doesn't carry much stock with me.

[Nell]

1 Corinthians 4:7 Amplified Bible (AMP)

7 For who regards you as superior or what sets you apart as special? What do you have that you did not receive [from another]? And if in fact you received it [from God or someone else], why do you boast as if you had not received it [but had gained it by yourself]?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

What is this book about!?

This book is an aberration by WL. Those in the Midwest tried to use this book and the handbook "Beliefs and Practices of Local Churches" to wave off attacks from Anaheim 20 years ago. They weren't buying. Only they knew the "real WL," and the Midwest must not take this book or its teachings, as they love to say "out of context."

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This book is an aberration by WL. Those in the Midwest tried to use this book and the handbook "Beliefs and Practices of Local Churches" to wave off attacks from Anaheim 20 years ago. They weren't buying. Only they knew the "real WL," and the Midwest must not take this book or its teachings, as they love to say "out of context."

No chicken dinner for you either!
Does anyone on here actually know what this book is trying to convey?! I'm beginning to think not, as no one yet has answered the simple question: What is this book about!?

It seems that if we are discussing the book, we should know this . . . or am I somehow way off in thinking this?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

No chicken dinner for you either!
Does anyone on here actually know what this book is trying to convey?! I'm beginning to think not, as no one yet has answered the simple question: What is this book about!?

It seems that if we are discussing the book, we should know this . . . or am I somehow way off in thinking this?

Some how, some way, some where, way off, yes indeed.