Testimony of God's Grace - Herald Hsu

[UntoHim]

Nee's mistakes? Would you like the list numerical or alphabetical? Seriously, have you even casually reviewed this forum? But I'll go ahead and entertain your question anyway.

#1 Promoted Witness Lee as a leader of the Local Church movement. Nee did this despite the clear evidence that Lee was not qualified in disposition or character to hold such a position. In less than a decade Witness turned a promising move of God in Mainland China into a virtual dictatorship and cult of personality. He hired and fired elders and co-workers at his personal whim, he used and abused many of the qualified brothers who grew up under Nee's ministry, and he treated the assets of the saints and churches as his personal and family piggy bank.

#2 Created and maintained (at the very least) the appearance of evil. We now know from Dr. Lily Hsu, in her book My Unforgettable Memories: Watchman Nee and Shanghai Local Church that Nee's infidelities went far, far beyond just the "appearance" of immorality. There is a very comprehensive thread on this forum covering the things revolving around the revelations in this book.
Here is the thread
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[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Nee's mistakes? Would you like the list numerical or alphabetical? Seriously, have you even casually reviewed this forum? But I'll go ahead and entertain your question anyway.

#1 Promoted Witness Lee as a leader of the Local Church movement. Nee did this despite the clear evidence that Lee was not qualified in disposition or character to hold such a position. In less than a decade Witness turned a promising move of God in Mainland China into a virtual dictatorship and cult of personality. He hired and fired elders and co-workers at his personal whim, he used and abused many of the qualified brothers who grew up under Nee's ministry, and he treated the assets of the saints and churches as his personal and family piggy bank.

#2 Created and maintained (at the very least) the appearance of evil. We now know from Dr. Lily Hsu, in her book My Unforgettable Memories: Watchman Nee and Shanghai Local Church that Nee's infidelities went far, far beyond just the "appearance" of immorality. There is a very comprehensive thread on this forum covering the things revolving around the revelations in this book.
Here is the thread
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Thanks for the link, some of the newbies may not know about it.

In response to your post : If you want to keep you heroes don't get to know them.

Instead, live in your delusion bubble, stay in the local church, worship them, and be happy. And support the lie that they were ministers of the age.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

what mistake had Nee made?

He mistook Satan's so-called deep secrets for God's truth.
Nee introduced mystic/gnostic leaven into his belief system and it leaved the whole of his faith.

Spiritual adultery is a serious offense to God, not to mention very hurtful to Him. I had to repent of it once and it was a painful experience that I'd rather not repeat. I know what it looks like when I see it.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

#2 Created and maintained (at the very least) the appearance of evil. We now know from Dr. Lily Hsu, in her book My Unforgettable Memories: Watchman Nee and Shanghai Local Church that Nee's infidelities went far, far beyond just the "appearance" of immorality. There is a very comprehensive thread on this forum covering the things revolving around the revelations in this book.

Here is the thread
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Interesting thread. I hadn't read it until now. What I found especially interesting is the martyr status Nee holds within the Lord's Recovery. I suspect it's one of the main legends propagated by his followers that keeps the movement going today.

I also have a theory relating to this;

If anyone's following US politics, they'd know President Trump's overarching agenda is to restore America to it's former glory. The only thing in the way of that are the big bad liberal democrats. In putting himself in the position of a restorationist, every attack against him is viewed as an attack against American liberty which in turn adds to a martyr complex. And it's this image as a true patriot and martyr that provides him ongoing support from his base.

The theory is that this is the same phenomenon taking place within the two factions of the Local Churches (LSM vs GLA).

Lee and LSM represent the liberals and GLA represent the ultra conservative restorationists. It's why I believe the martyr image is so crucial to GLA's ongoing conflict against LSM. It's also why GLA exhalts Nee but essentially pulled a damnatio memoriae on Witness Lee which leads me to believe Titus isn't shooting for Lee's legacy, he has his sights set on Nee's with the ultimate goal of restoring the Lord's Recovery to it's former glory.

It's all politics masquerading as religion, just like Nee's imprisonment and martyrdom was it seems. The Lord looks down and laughs. Anyway, those are my thoughts for the day.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Jo S

It's all politics masquerading as religion, just like Nee's imprisonment and martyrdom was it seems. The Lord looks down and laughs. Anyway, those are my thoughts for the day.

Yes, I realized some time ago there are, broadly speaking, no bad guys, just bad ideas.

The Us vs. Them mentality is the bread-and-butter of demagogues and populists. And unfortunately there is a new generation every twenty years too naive to realize how manipulative it is. And the cycle repeats.

I don't know whether the GLA is doing what you say, but in principle I agree with you, and would not put it passed them.

We have to stand up to those who hurt others. But we should realize they are not the ultimate enemy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I also have a theory relating to this;

If anyone's following US politics, they'd know President Trump's overarching agenda is to restore America to it's former glory. The only thing in the way of that are the big bad liberal democrats. In putting himself in the position of a restorationist, every attack against him is viewed as an attack against American liberty which in turn adds to a martyr complex. And it's this image as a true patriot and martyr that provides him ongoing support from his base.

The theory is that this is the same phenomenon taking place within the two factions of the Local Churches (LSM vs GLA). He had little respect for them.

Lee and LSM represent the liberals and GLA represent the ultra conservative restorationists. It's why I believe the martyr image is so crucial to GLA's ongoing conflict against LSM. It's also why GLA exhalts Nee but essentially pulled a damnatio memoriae on Witness Lee which leads me to believe Titus isn't shooting for Lee's legacy, he has his sights set on Nee's with the ultimate goal of restoring the Lord's Recovery to it's former glory.

Better take your politics to Alt-Views. Glad to discuss your theories there. And most posters are liberals too.

I had more than a few meetings with TC, and your opinions of TC never match reality.

Here's a far more simplistic and accurate assessment of TC: WL Good, Blendeds Bad.

TC saw WL as his own "spiritual father," and all of his mistakes were "none of my business." Some of the Blendeds, however, TC used to call "those five little boys."

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Better take your politics to Alt-Views. Glad to discuss your theories there. And most posters are liberals too.

Ohio, I'd rather not get into the politics but I also understand it's impossible to avoid when discussing the Local Churches ...especially in the state that they're currently in. What I mean by that is the divide that's a result of the '06 quarantines has made the institution more of a political machine than a religious one. This actually started with Nee in China it seems but has now been completely realized in the conflict between LSM and GLA. How ironic that the Local Church's worse enemies would be from amongst their own...

Originally Posted by Ohio

I had more than a few meetings with TC, and your opinions of TC never match reality.

It doesn't matter if you've met him a hundred times or no times at all. You'll never know the man through personal interactions. It's simply the culture of the Local Churches...keep everyone at a comfortable distance. Come to think of it, through all the dissociative practices taught in the LC's, its leadership may even struggle with knowing who they really are...

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a far more simplistic and accurate assessment of TC: WL Good, Blendeds Bad.

TC saw WL as his own "spiritual father," and all of his mistakes were "none of my business." Some of the Blendeds, however, TC used to call "those five little boys."

If WL was TC's "spiritual father", my question is; what kind of father cuts his own son out from thier rightful inheritance? Even then, being in control of a dead religious institution isn't much of an inhereitance at all. It's what I wished those effected by the quarantines would realize so they can all move past the pain.

It's as if Lee knew exactly what needed to be done before his passing (by instituting the Blended Brothers) in order for the division that was such an integral part of his leadership to continue on from beyond the grave. Perhaps subconsciously he knew if members of the local churches actually disassociated themselves from himself and Watchman Nee, and in turn reconciled themselves back to Christ, both their legacies would dissolve in the process.

Division is what's actually keeping the Local Churches "alive" so to speak...

[aron]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Division is what's actually keeping the Local Churches "alive" so to speak...

If what fuels me to get up every morning and sit at the keyboard and tap out my thoughts is a spirit of antagonism then where's the issue? Unending rancor.

The manipulator creates a "bugbear" & tell the masses that if they obey, they'll be kept safe. WL did this by creating "Christianity" as his foil, eventually producing something as grotesque and horrifying as what he tried to save us from: a string of slavishly reverent assemblies, a dependent republic of "affiliated" churches (their word), a set of mutually antagonistic gulag archipelagos run by TC, LSM, DYL.

See? There's my spirit of rancor, right on cue. It's hard not to get pissed off, when you see what's being foisted on people. But to be effective I need to learn, by stepping back and examining the forces at work, the "principalities and powers" that insinuate themselves and defy God, even through me.

For example, in scripture, the reality doesn't claim itself, but demonstrates what it is. Reality, by nature, simply is, and does accordingly. Jesus made few claims, and those were privately. But publicly he healed. And he told John's followers, " Go, and tell John what you see." By contrast, the false Christs claim, and claim, and claim, all the while knowing what PT Barnum knew, that there are new suckers born every minute.

For me, one of the keys to open the door of captive thinking was to see the illogic and dissociation buried in the schemas of WL et al (TC, DYL, LSM). On one hand, we heard "we don't care for right and wrong", but on the other hand we were told how important it was to be "genuine" and "proper" in every aspect (as defined by our "apostle"). What's the difference between "right" and "proper", though? Really none at all. But they don't want us to think critically and notice that, else their hold on us becomes weaker.