Intro of an ex "Church Kid"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Where did you come up with such silly nonsense? Did your acting god Bart Ehrman put this into your little head? Maybe Witness Lee taught such a thing, but that would be just another good reason this forum exists.
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I came up with it from long ago in the Southern Baptist church. And also, rather recently in the Church of Christ (Campbellites). I also heard it a year or so ago from a extended Southern Baptist family member. I have no clue if Ehrman ever addresses Eve in such away. Your pejorative dismissed, he's smarter than that. Plus, he's not an inerrantist. Not to say he hasn't textually critically examined women in the NT.

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I would say for this matter to be thoroughly determined would require its own thread. However, since LCD membership is mostly male, I doubt it'd get a balanced exposition.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by awareness

I would say for this matter to be thoroughly determined would require its own thread. However, since LCD membership is mostly male, I doubt it'd get a balanced exposition.

Harold, in the interest of a healthy balance, I can give my experience....I HAVE heard such a teaching, from the LC, but I didn't receive it. Or believe into it....because I never, ever got that from the Lord, nor the word. And the discouragement doesn't come from just the LC denomination.....and it is not only meant for women. Satan would have us all, brothers and sisters alike, discouraged in such a way. But satan can sit under Jesus the Lords feet, where he belongs. Be encouraged, Harold! God is faithful when we cannot be. Bless you!

byHismercy

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

I came up with it from long ago in the Southern Baptist church. And also, rather recently in the Church of Christ (Campbellites). I also heard it a year or so ago from a extended Southern Baptist family member...

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Interesting how those looking for ammo to control and suppress others will cite Paul and not Jesus. My own take is this: Jesus offered freedom. Freedom from sin, from fear, alienation. Even death itself stood down.

And freedom was offered to all. And especially, to those who were pushed down.

Now, Paul came along, and had to remind these newly-liberated folks to respect established social convention. Women still had to respect their husbands, children their parents, slaves their masters. "Do not turn your freedom in Christ into an opportunity for societal upheaval & chaos". Peter also touched this theme: "Although we have but one king, Jesus, we respect the earthly kings who are here for our protection"

But 2,000 years later, social conventions have changed. Slavery is abolished, and women have equality. Except in some fundamentalist sects.

But if you think Christians have grounds for a two-tiered faith, look at Jesus with Martha and Mary. They were engaged and actualized peers, in every sense of the word. (Again, understand the social conventions of those times).

The implications of Mary/Martha/Lazarus and their relations with Jesus, apart from intermediaries like the Twelve, are often ignored, even studiously so. Mary's inferred to be a shy, wilting lily, the prototypical back-row sister... "Oh, she just loved the Lord". No, try again. You missed that one by a country mile. Your word "just" was snuck in, even deliberately, and has no place in that sentence. It's veiled and suppressive cult-speak.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by awareness

I came up with it from long ago in the Southern Baptist church. And also, rather recently in the Church of Christ (Campbellites). I also heard it a year or so ago from a extended Southern Baptist family member.

Excellent! Thank you for making my point for me. These notions do NOT come from the Bible. They come from the desperately wicked and evil heart of sinful and ignorant men. When taken as a whole, the Bible actually shows us quite an opposite portrayal and view of men and women, and their relationship to each other, and to God. The simple fact is that Witness Lee, in his teachings and established practices, continued on with a long line of Christian teachers that have corrupted the beautiful and godly relationship between men and women. Unfortunately, Lee and his followers have been quite successful in cloaking Chinese/Asian culture for "the God ordained way".

I would say for this matter to be thoroughly determined would require its own thread. However, since LCD membership is mostly male, I doubt it'd get a balanced exposition.

Good point. But happily, most of our newest members are women/sisters...so hang on to your hats fellows...the balance of power is about to be shifted around this ole popcorn stand
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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Excellent! Thank you for making my point for me. These notions do NOT come from the Bible. They come from the desperately wicked and evil heart of sinful and ignorant men. When taken as a whole, the Bible actually shows us quite an opposite portrayal and view of men and women, and their relationship to each other, and to God. The simple fact is that Witness Lee, in his teachings and established practices, continued on with a long line of Christian teachers that have corrupted the beautiful and godly relationship between men and women. Unfortunately, Lee and his followers have been quite successful in cloaking Chinese/Asian culture for "the God ordained way".

Both in Jesus time, then with the apostles, and later throughout church history there always were those who twisted the scriptures (e.g. Mark 7.13; 2 Pet 2.16) for self-gain. Others would then come along and use these "twisters" to mis-characterize the bible and the whole church. Such a common ploy seems to be rampant in our culture.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Excellent! Thank you for making my point for me. These notions do NOT come from the Bible. They come from the desperately wicked and evil heart of sinful and ignorant men. When taken as a whole, the Bible actually shows us quite an opposite portrayal and view of men and women, and their relationship to each other, and to God. The simple fact is that Witness Lee, in his teachings and established practices, continued on with a long line of Christian teachers that have corrupted the beautiful and godly relationship between men and women. Unfortunately, Lee and his followers have been quite successful in cloaking Chinese/Asian culture for "the God ordained way".

Valid points brother. I think it's like slavery, where back in the mid-19th c. Southern Baptist's selected verses from the Bible to support the holding of slaves. BTW, the same cousin that said Eve is the reason Jesus had to die for our sins (when Paul blames it on Adam), is also the one that said God is judging America because we're not holding to His law, and the cruse of Ham, by not keeping blacks in slavery.

Basically, I guess, the Bible can be used to support anything ... including Chinese/Asian culture.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Good point. But happily, most of our newest members are women/sisters...so hang on to your hats fellows...the balance of power is about to be shifted around this ole popcorn stand -

I'm glad to see that. The forum needs the balance of female voices.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by awareness

Valid points brother. I think it's like slavery, where back in the mid-19th c. Southern Baptist's selected verses from the Bible to support the holding of slaves. BTW, the same cousin that said Eve is the reason Jesus had to die for our sins (when Paul blames it on Adam), is also the one that said God is judging America because we're not holding to His law, and the cruse of Ham, by not keeping blacks in slaver

Basically, I guess, the Bible can be used to support anything ... including Chinese/Asian culture.




I'm glad to see that. The forum needs the balance of female voices.

Yuck, Harold.