Intro of an ex "Church Kid"

[kappagamma]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Can you mention some of the books? My level of separation was damagingly overemphasized and continues to affect me to this day. It helps to know and see what healthy ways are.

Trapped

Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free by Linda Kay Klein

link to the interview: https://www.npr.org/2018/09/18/64873...es-as-a-threat

This is the first one I read. I heard an interview with the author one day on the radio while I was driving to work and was left reeling. I had never heard the term "purity culture" before and was so grateful to hear that this was a thing and it explained so much of what I had struggled with even now married for almost a decade. While I had already stopped meeting physically several years ago this has played a large role in the inward shift away from the LC, and to be honest, probably any other evangelical group as well. I can't risk my children being subjected to the same thing. Therapy and learning what should have been learned a long time ago is the only thing I know of that has helped me so far to combat the reactions so many females raised this way have toward the opposite sex. Be it shame or the opposite I think both are indicative of this type of upbringing and result in religious trauma. There's some good info online if you search "purity culture."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by kappagamma

Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free by Linda Kay Klein

link to the interview: https://www.npr.org/2018/09/18/64873...es-as-a-threat

Thanks for this link kappagamma. I found it both interesting and informative :

"Memoirist: Evangelical Purity Movement Sees Women's Bodies As A 'Threat'"

In their defense, they get that women's bodies are a threat from the Bible.

But I think it is way past and high time that we break free from the patriarchal ways of the long ago ancient days, ways, and cultures, of antiquity.

After all, those were the days when the kings were considered God's representative on earth -- Caesar Augustus was said to be god -- ... and well ... that is what Lee was suppose to be. So maybe there's a link between those claiming to be God, or His one and only rep. and spokesperson, and the oppression of women in general.

I hold little hope for those adhering strictly and literally to the Bible to break free of the old patriarchal ways. All my life I seen what the Bible does to women (they are all Eve's -- that are to blame for Jesus having to die on the cross). In fact, there have been times, in my recent past, when my jaw has literally dropped at witnessing it from the preacher toward a sister(s). It's down right freaky in my book ; it's way too fanatical for my taste. And they don't want to hear : "In Christ there's no male or female." I've tried it.

As I see it, the only way for a sister to get free, gain self respect, and a healthy view of herself, is to walk away from such groups. In general, cults are brutal towards girls and women. Flee them ASAP.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

"Memoirist: Evangelical Purity Movement Sees Women's Bodies As A 'Threat'"

In their defense, they get that women's bodies are a threat from the Bible.

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[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by awareness

In their defense, they get that women's bodies are a threat from the Bible.

Harold, only someone who gets his biblical theology from Google, Wikipedia and National Public Radio would ever utter such nonsense. The Bible teaches no such thing. The New Testament teaches no such thing. I definitely can see where our dear women/sisters who have been in the Local Church of Witness Lee would have such a concept or understanding. After all, the Local Church is deeply steeped in ancient Chinese/Asian culture, and this kind of understanding/concepts/tradition definitely comes out of the Asian culture. And yes, such a view of women and their socioreligous status/function has definitely influenced certain Christian traditions since the beginning...but the influences are not coming from the Scriptures, but from the sinful and selfish hearts and minds of ignorant people. Sometimes these sinful, selfish and ignorant people just happen to be Christian men.

I hold little hope for those adhering strictly and literally to the Bible to break free of the old patriarchal ways. All my life I seen what the Bible does to women (they are all Eve's -- that are to blame for Jesus having to die on the cross

Whether one adheres strictly and literally to the Bible is irrelevant to anything you are saying. THE BIBLE TEACHES NO SUCH THING. The Gospel never even faintly implies that women "are to blame for Jesus having to die on the cross". Where did you come up with such silly nonsense? Did your acting god Bart Ehrman put this into your little head? Maybe Witness Lee taught such a thing, but that would be just another good reason this forum exists.
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[Raptor]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Where did you come up with such silly nonsense? that: "women.....are to blame for Jesus having to die on the cross".
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it probably comes from using steroids to push the thought that Eve partook of the TKGE first, tricked Adam and therefore caused the fall, forcing Jesus to come and die to for us. But where was Adam when the serpent came knocking? ....watching the game? He should have taken the lead to eat the ToL first, given some to Eve, and then trampled on the head of the serpent when it peeked through the door....

Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

By the way UntoHim....you have a private message.....

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Where did you come up with such silly nonsense? Did your acting god Bart Ehrman put this into your little head? Maybe Witness Lee taught such a thing, but that would be just another good reason this forum exists.
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I came up with it from long ago in the Southern Baptist church. And also, rather recently in the Church of Christ (Campbellites). I also heard it a year or so ago from a extended Southern Baptist family member. I have no clue if Ehrman ever addresses Eve in such away. Your pejorative dismissed, he's smarter than that. Plus, he's not an inerrantist. Not to say he hasn't textually critically examined women in the NT.

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I would say for this matter to be thoroughly determined would require its own thread. However, since LCD membership is mostly male, I doubt it'd get a balanced exposition.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by awareness

I would say for this matter to be thoroughly determined would require its own thread. However, since LCD membership is mostly male, I doubt it'd get a balanced exposition.

Harold, in the interest of a healthy balance, I can give my experience....I HAVE heard such a teaching, from the LC, but I didn't receive it. Or believe into it....because I never, ever got that from the Lord, nor the word. And the discouragement doesn't come from just the LC denomination.....and it is not only meant for women. Satan would have us all, brothers and sisters alike, discouraged in such a way. But satan can sit under Jesus the Lords feet, where he belongs. Be encouraged, Harold! God is faithful when we cannot be. Bless you!

byHismercy

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

I came up with it from long ago in the Southern Baptist church. And also, rather recently in the Church of Christ (Campbellites). I also heard it a year or so ago from a extended Southern Baptist family member...

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Interesting how those looking for ammo to control and suppress others will cite Paul and not Jesus. My own take is this: Jesus offered freedom. Freedom from sin, from fear, alienation. Even death itself stood down.

And freedom was offered to all. And especially, to those who were pushed down.

Now, Paul came along, and had to remind these newly-liberated folks to respect established social convention. Women still had to respect their husbands, children their parents, slaves their masters. "Do not turn your freedom in Christ into an opportunity for societal upheaval & chaos". Peter also touched this theme: "Although we have but one king, Jesus, we respect the earthly kings who are here for our protection"

But 2,000 years later, social conventions have changed. Slavery is abolished, and women have equality. Except in some fundamentalist sects.

But if you think Christians have grounds for a two-tiered faith, look at Jesus with Martha and Mary. They were engaged and actualized peers, in every sense of the word. (Again, understand the social conventions of those times).

The implications of Mary/Martha/Lazarus and their relations with Jesus, apart from intermediaries like the Twelve, are often ignored, even studiously so. Mary's inferred to be a shy, wilting lily, the prototypical back-row sister... "Oh, she just loved the Lord". No, try again. You missed that one by a country mile. Your word "just" was snuck in, even deliberately, and has no place in that sentence. It's veiled and suppressive cult-speak.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by awareness

I came up with it from long ago in the Southern Baptist church. And also, rather recently in the Church of Christ (Campbellites). I also heard it a year or so ago from a extended Southern Baptist family member.

Excellent! Thank you for making my point for me. These notions do NOT come from the Bible. They come from the desperately wicked and evil heart of sinful and ignorant men. When taken as a whole, the Bible actually shows us quite an opposite portrayal and view of men and women, and their relationship to each other, and to God. The simple fact is that Witness Lee, in his teachings and established practices, continued on with a long line of Christian teachers that have corrupted the beautiful and godly relationship between men and women. Unfortunately, Lee and his followers have been quite successful in cloaking Chinese/Asian culture for "the God ordained way".

I would say for this matter to be thoroughly determined would require its own thread. However, since LCD membership is mostly male, I doubt it'd get a balanced exposition.

Good point. But happily, most of our newest members are women/sisters...so hang on to your hats fellows...the balance of power is about to be shifted around this ole popcorn stand
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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Excellent! Thank you for making my point for me. These notions do NOT come from the Bible. They come from the desperately wicked and evil heart of sinful and ignorant men. When taken as a whole, the Bible actually shows us quite an opposite portrayal and view of men and women, and their relationship to each other, and to God. The simple fact is that Witness Lee, in his teachings and established practices, continued on with a long line of Christian teachers that have corrupted the beautiful and godly relationship between men and women. Unfortunately, Lee and his followers have been quite successful in cloaking Chinese/Asian culture for "the God ordained way".

Both in Jesus time, then with the apostles, and later throughout church history there always were those who twisted the scriptures (e.g. Mark 7.13; 2 Pet 2.16) for self-gain. Others would then come along and use these "twisters" to mis-characterize the bible and the whole church. Such a common ploy seems to be rampant in our culture.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Excellent! Thank you for making my point for me. These notions do NOT come from the Bible. They come from the desperately wicked and evil heart of sinful and ignorant men. When taken as a whole, the Bible actually shows us quite an opposite portrayal and view of men and women, and their relationship to each other, and to God. The simple fact is that Witness Lee, in his teachings and established practices, continued on with a long line of Christian teachers that have corrupted the beautiful and godly relationship between men and women. Unfortunately, Lee and his followers have been quite successful in cloaking Chinese/Asian culture for "the God ordained way".

Valid points brother. I think it's like slavery, where back in the mid-19th c. Southern Baptist's selected verses from the Bible to support the holding of slaves. BTW, the same cousin that said Eve is the reason Jesus had to die for our sins (when Paul blames it on Adam), is also the one that said God is judging America because we're not holding to His law, and the cruse of Ham, by not keeping blacks in slavery.

Basically, I guess, the Bible can be used to support anything ... including Chinese/Asian culture.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Good point. But happily, most of our newest members are women/sisters...so hang on to your hats fellows...the balance of power is about to be shifted around this ole popcorn stand -

I'm glad to see that. The forum needs the balance of female voices.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

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I had a post similar to UntoHim's post, but I deleted it.


It's just getting old bro. Just getting old ...........................