RE: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

[aron]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I'm sorry for the rant, Aron, but I reel whenever I see the human soul viewed in a negative light. It may have not been what you meant but the way you reworded that scripture can easily be perceived the wrong way by some.

I was using the context of the disciples arguing about which was greatest. That, to me, is the Kingdom of Self. The fallen human disposition to make everything about Me, Me and Me.

I was like that, for a long time, both through the LC and beyond, and maybe from this project my own foibles on others, which distorts my ability to see what scripture actually says.

When you lose the "me first" attitude, which the soul seems to gravitate to, then you can find peace, joy, fellowship, love. The LC was, in retrospect, one person's unmet needs (WL) writ large across the assembly. If we fed his ego, we felt better for a time. We were recruited to be co-conspirators, co-dependents as it were. His "me-first" abetted my "me-first" for a time. Then the wine ran out...

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by aron

I was using the context of the disciples arguing about which was greatest. That, to me, is the Kingdom of Self. The fallen human disposition to make everything about Me, Me and Me.

I was like that, for a long time, both through the LC and beyond, and maybe from this project my own foibles on others, which distorts my ability to see what scripture actually says.

That's what I assumed but at the same time needing God, needing salvation, needing His healing, needing Godly Christian fellowship for one's self, are things we should selfishly pursue. It's only the trivial things like what we wear or what we eat that shouldn't concerned us so much.

You remind me of an old friend of mine. He wasn't a Christian but was one of the most kind and giving people you could ever meet. I admired, and often times envied, this part of his character growing up. It wasn't until I came to know Christ and his love that I came to realize my friend's "love" for other's was in reality selfishness cloaked in selflessness. What I mean is that for him, offering and often times forcing his help on others was a type of self-therapy. The praises he received from others provided him with the validation he needed to maintain his wellbeing but there was a darker side to all of it. The truth was that his giving was first and foremost always about himself. He found that the best solution for his low self-esteem issues was doing things for other people. It was a reciprocal type of love.

This may all sound harsh but it's the truth. I don't fault my friend for using his deeds in helping others as a crutch for himself but I no longer admire this type of selflessness. I still, however, admire and appreciate his willingness to help others. From this example, I now understand that it's only from the outflow of God's genuine love in us that can truly change other's lives and not from the outflow of the self-love and self-righteousness in us.

1 Corinthians 13 :

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Originally Posted by aron

When you lose the "me first" attitude, which the soul seems to gravitate to, then you can find peace, joy, fellowship, love. The LC was, in retrospect, one person's unmet needs (WL) writ large across the assembly. If we fed his ego, we felt better for a time. We were recruited to be co-conspirators, co-dependents as it were. His "me-first" abetted my "me-first" for a time. Then the wine ran out...

It's our bondage to sin that gravitates us toward the "me first" attitude. Sin is darkness and darkness is a bottomless void with a voracious and insatiable appetite. Ourselves or our souls are subject to this quality of sin before we come to salvation. We can't help it and by no effort of our own can we change that. If we try by our own strength it'll only leads to the type of altruism that I mentioned above.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Jo S

That's what I assumed but at the same time needing God, needing salvation, needing His healing, needing Godly Christian fellowship for one's self, are things we should selfishly pursue. It's only the trivial things like what we wear or what we eat that shouldn't concerned us so much.

Love is the answer. When we begin to see people as God sees them, when we see how much he cares for them we begin to want the best for them and become less selfish. We genuinely care, and being more sacrificial is the natural result.

[Cal]

I've been watching the HBO miniseries Chernobyl, which dramatically shows what really happened when and after the Soviet Union nuclear power plant exploded.

The top priority of the Soviets was to suppress and control information. Everything was about lying and threatening and punishing those who didn't go along with the white-washing. In time the disaster became so great that some could no longer pretend, but the Soviet machine still tried to spin things to their best benefit, even as the top leaders had to face the reality of the situation. But the striking thing was how the pecking order, information control and pretending was such an accepted part of daily life there.

Besides the party "true believers" most people realized the system was bad, but had no power to resist. Everyone just went along with it. Shortly after the plant explosion, an elderly party apparatchik gives a stirring but completely naive pep talk to an arguing group of leaders. He tells them that everything will be alright if they have faith in "the state." The inspired group stands and applauds him, ignorant of the radiation bombarding their bodies at that very moment.

I was struck at how it matched the LR culture. The fatal error is that the group, whether the "state" or the "recovery," is more important that anyone or anything, even the truth. It's all about threats and fear and intimidation and keeping people in their place. It's all about people being means to an end. It's all about a system based on lies. The KGB reminded me of the DCP. They too considered their job "a faithful word," when all they were was the intimidating muscle behind the lies.

The LR is Christianity's Soviet Union. So many grand ideas, all more important than the people they are supposed to bless--a relentless machine marching to its final meltdown, which will unfortunately take many with it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I was struck at how it matched the LR culture. The fatal error is that the group, whether the "state" or the "recovery," is more important that anyone or anything, even the truth. It's all about threats and fear and intimidation and keeping people in their place. It's all about people being means to an end. It's all about a system based on lies. The KGB reminded me of the DCP. They too considered their job "a faithful word," when all they were was the intimidating muscle behind the lies.

The LR is Christianity's Soviet Union. So many grand ideas, all more important than the people they are supposed to bless--a relentless machine marching to its final meltdown, which will unfortunately take many with it.

Fascinating analogies.

The Recovery has these "10-Year-Storms" to re-exert their fake authority and re-remind the rank-and-file that "all authority has been given to the MOTA."

Why 10 years? Apparently that's how long it takes to forget this nonsense.

Socialistic communism in the Soviet Union had a lot of good points. There was no income inequality. They all lived in borderline poverty, but they had all things common. Jobs, homes, and health care were human rights they all shared. Crime was exceedingly low. They had no corrupt Christian ministries. Public transportation was available for all. There was no political infighting occupying the daily news, and every candidate received unanimous support from the people.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I was struck at how it matched the LR culture. The fatal error is that the group, whether the "state" or the "recovery," is more important that anyone or anything, even the truth. It's all about threats and fear and intimidation and keeping people in their place. It's all about people being means to an end. It's all about a system based on lies. The KGB reminded me of the DCP. They too considered their job "a faithful word," when all they were was the intimidating muscle behind the lies.

The LR is Christianity's Soviet Union. So many grand ideas, all more important than the people they are supposed to bless--a relentless machine marching to its final meltdown, which will unfortunately take many with it.

I too couldn't help but to think of the Local Churches and seeing the similarities between these two systems while watching the Chernobyl miniseries...

Some will be upset with me but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. I haven't yet heard an LC member refer to another Christian outside of the Lord's Recovery movement as a "saint". The one thing that particularly stood out to me while watching Chernobyl was how similar the use of the term "saint" within the LC's is to how the Soviet's referred only to those within their Union as "comrade". Of course all those born of God are His saints but it seems the LC's took that label, exclusivised, and redefined it to only apply to those within the confines of their movement as a type of unifier to a common cause. (I apologize for the broad brush stroke, I don't assume this applies to everyone).

Anyway, I do understand the use of Soviet style of control within religious movements but what I really think holds the LC's together is community by those, like Jo, whom have a sincere and caring heart for those around them.

I believe the control tactics are used indirectly to maintain the naivety of the people so they continue to give their all unaware. This, in turn, is what keeps community together and the "machine" running.

Like Ohio said, the Soviets had some seemingly great ideas but history shows that collapse is inevitable whenever man tries to create a utopia on earth by their own efforts (think Babel, Nazi Germany). Or in terms of Christianity, whenever there is doctrine that teaches dominionism (the ushering in of Christ's kingdom by man's efforts) it too will eventually come to a dead end. In the Local Churches, this is the doctrine of Locality. And continuing with the Chernobyl analogy, this doctrine is their "fatal flaw".

It's only at the Lord Jesus Christ's return will a "movement" or kingdom without end be established on earth.

[Cal]

This is from the Wikipedia article on the miniseries Chernobyl. The portion highlighted struck me as exactly how the LR leadership and DCP would have responded to any similar project which criticized the LR:

The miniseries was well-received in Russia. Vladimir Medinsky, Russian culture minister, called the series “Masterfully made” and “filmed with great respect for ordinary people”.... Anna Narinskaya, in Novaya Gazeta, noticed how the series, despite the harsh criticism of the Soviet government, became sympathetic to the common people, demonstrating their feat, solidarity, which even splashed around those who were called apparatchiks. The Communist Party of Russia called for a libel lawsuit against Chernobyl’s writer, director and producers, describing the show as "disgusting". In a statement, party member Sergey Malinkovich spoke of the party’s intentions to lobby TV regulator Roskomnadzor to request that it blocks local access to the series.

Push the lie, suppress information, threaten lawsuits, block the truth. That's the mantra of oppressive regimes, and the LR is one of them.

The moral of Chernobyl is that the nuclear power plant disaster was the direct result of the Soviet Union's policy of suppressing any information which made them look bad, including the RBMK reactor design flaw which led to the explosion. I guess it is fitting that their own lies did them in, except that innocent people went down with them. The same is and will be true for the LR.