Awoken after 38 Years

[MrsFreedom]

To anyone who wants to pop over to my FB post and contribute, you are more than welcome.

I know that many saints are reading the comments even if they aren't commenting due to the number of them who are reaching out to me asking questions.

Anyone who would like to contribute history about DayStar, WL's two sons, the control of LSM, etc. would have a lot to bring to the table.

I'm still learning since I have only been out for a couple of months and many of you have had years of learning.

Thanks so much and once again thank you for this forum!
~J

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by MrsFreedom

To anyone who wants to pop over to my FB post and contribute, you are more than welcome.

I know that many saints are reading the comments even if they aren't commenting due to the number of them who are reaching out to me asking questions.

Anyone who would like to contribute history about DayStar, WL's two sons, the control of LSM, etc. would have a lot to bring to the table.

I'm still learning since I have only been out for a couple of months and many of you have had years of learning.

Thanks so much and once again thank you for this forum!
~J

This thread about Daystar is somewhat coherent, but unfortunately Daystar discussions tend to pop up all over the forum. Many of the picture links have expired.

The story about WL's son Philip was the most egregious:

1. Philip had a long history of molesting sisters who volunteered to serve at LSM. Back in the late '70's, Max Rapoport confronted him about it, and WL expelled Max with numerous false accusations.
2. Philip Lee was placed 2nd in command and treated dogs better than LC co-workers and elders. WL treated them only slightly better.
3. If, like John So, a brother rejected PL's abuses, then Philip retaliated against the saints from Germany
4. John Ingalls' account Speaking the Truth in Love made it abundantly clear that neither he nor other elders were out to hurt WL
5. Like son, like father, WL retaliated against Ingalls et.al. with many false accusations, by smearing their reputations, and then expelling them
6. In order to "change the subject" in the Recovery, and redirect the attention of the remaining saints, WL devised "high peak" teachings about becoming God. That only served to puff up the saints.

All this is documented, and has been posted on the forum.

[aron]

My point about Daystar was this: even if it hadn't been a financial boondoggle where the money disappeared, at least some of which was in the hands of unspiritual child Timothy Lee, and 'investors' were told to consider it a donation, with ''training fees'' established to pay off those who insisted on repayment- even if it had played out differently it would show us something important.

Witness Lee used his position as church leader to leverage funds for family gain. He had selfish personal motives and displayed patterns of "individualistic thought" (to use LSM terms), both with Daystar and with other actions stretching back to Taiwan in the 1950s.

And Philip Lee as Office Manager at LSM was the same thing - even if he hadn't been a bully by all accounts, even if he hadn't been repeatedly caught molesting the office help - the very fact that WL used his church position to build his personal 'guanxi network's of close associates tells you everything you need to know about the 'Body' as it was practiced in the LC. And then they asked people to give their lives to it. What a despicable scam.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

My point about Daystar was this: even if it hadn't been a financial boondoggle where the money disappeared, at least some of which was in the hands of unspiritual child Timothy Lee, and 'investors' were told to consider it a donation, with ''training fees'' established to pay off those who insisted on repayment- even if it had played out differently it would show us something important.

Witness Lee used his position as church leader to leverage funds for family gain. He had selfish personal motives and displayed patterns of "individualistic thought" (to use LSM terms), both with Daystar and with other actions stretching back to Taiwan in the 1950s.

And Philip Lee as Office Manager at LSM was the same thing - even if he hadn't been a bully by all accounts, even if he hadn't been repeatedly caught molesting the office help - the very fact that WL used his church position to build his personal 'guanxi network's of close associates tells you everything you need to know about the 'Body' as it was practiced in the LC. And then they asked people to give their lives to it. What a despicable scam.

WL told us that the Lord led him to the US.

Later we learned that the Taipei saints were upset and rejected him. WL had forced the elders of Hall One to sell their church property in order to pay off his own personal business debts.

After every one of his failed boondoggles WL would remind the saints that Nee warned us of never mixing business with the church.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

WL told us that the Lord led him to the US.

Later we learned that the Taipei saints were upset and rejected him. WL had forced the elders of Hall One to sell their church property in order to pay off his own personal business debts.

Seems same can be said of Philippines and much of Southeast Asia being closed to Witness Lee. Then came the World Fair in Seattle 1962. Could that be what led Witness Lee to the U.S.?

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by Terry

Seems same can be said of Philippines and much of Southeast Asia being closed to Witness Lee. Then came the World Fair in Seattle 1962. Could that be what led Witness Lee to the U.S.?

I've heard there is complication in Taiwan. In a nutshell, It's not that every leading brother or saint in Taiwan (of course Philippines and other Asian countries) blindly follow WL and LSM, but mostly not surfaced these days.

Some Korean brothers seem to have info sources in Taiwan and know the truth, but not enough. I hope some day any Taiwanese saint (like MrsFreeom) would bring the facts to the public for all to see.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

[*]John Ingalls' account Speaking the Truth in Love made it abundantly clear that neither he nor other elders were out to hurt WL[*]Like son, like father, WL retaliated against Ingalls et.al. with many false accusations, by smearing their reputations, and then expelling them[/LIST]

Past few years I've been out of touch with the ongoings from the LSM pulpit. I got the impression from a post several months back that John Ingalls is still being smeared by the narrative LSM wants to continue to propagate.
Any confirmation or denial?

[Weighingin]

Originally Posted by Terry

Past few years I've been out of touch with the ongoings from the LSM pulpit. I got the impression from a post several months back that John Ingalls is still being smeared by the narrative LSM wants to continue to propagate.
Any confirmation or denial?

RK mentioned JI in one conference meeting this year in not a good light. I also heard him in at least one other meeting before that. I thought he's still criticizing him after all these years even being JI is with the Lord!!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

RK mentioned JI in one conference meeting this year in not a good light. I also heard him in at least one other meeting before that. I thought he's still criticizing him after all these years even being JI is with the Lord!!

That was when Kangas accused John Ingalls of being "obsessed" with right and wrong by not realizing that being a "God-man" allowed you to bypass your conscience. Or some insanity like that.

I satirized his folly in this video: Rocket Raccoon punks Ron Kangas

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

That was when Kangas accused John Ingalls of being "obsessed" with right and wrong by not realizing that being a "God-man" allowed you to bypass your conscience. Or some insanity like that.

I satirized his folly in this video: Rocket Raccoon punks Ron Kangas

Absurd! Yet too close to LC reality.

Has Ron Kangas gone off the deep end?


Take away the scripture and mock them for following their conscience ...

And this is the kind of nonsense that results.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by Igzy

That was when Kangas accused John Ingalls of being "obsessed" with right and wrong by not realizing that being a "God-man" allowed you to bypass your conscience. Or some insanity like that.

I satirized his folly in this video: Rocket Raccoon punks Ron Kangas

Igzy, your moving clip is so fun.

Yes, it's so easy a way to get out of the predicament when they proved wrong.
"Don't care right or wrong. Just enjoy the three of life." The most efficient hard-stop when any reasonable discussion with the LCers is about to start.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Gubei

Igzy, your moving clip is so fun.

Thank you Gubei!

At some point you just have to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

Ron Kangas is a dear brother. Unfortunately his current incarnation is deluded windbag.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

That was when Kangas accused John Ingalls of being "obsessed" with right and wrong by not realizing that being a "God-man" allowed you to bypass your conscience. Or some insanity like that.

I satirized his folly in this video: Rocket Raccoon punks Ron Kangas

Cute Igzy.

I'm not sure if Kangas left his conscience in Detroit or in Fort Lauderdale. Either way his wife was right about him. Kangas is an example of how very smart people can be morally bankrupt.

Back in the early 70s Kangas joined a crowd of "Christians" going back to at least the 4th century.

[Truthseeker]

Amen, 38 years. What a biblical synchronicity!
It looks like the year Israelites failed Jehovah in wilderness and missed the good land. Moreover, it reminds us the year Saul ruled corruptly while he is forsaking God. Now you are going to be in good land after being liberated from 38 years of failed generation in wilderness. Now you are freed from your spiritual years under Saul and preparing yourself to enjoy the reign of Christ as real David. Praise the Lord for His divine grace and mercy toward you. You are saved by Him again.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by MrsFreedom

To anyone who wants to pop over to my FB post and contribute, you are more than welcome.

I know that many saints are reading the comments even if they aren't commenting due to the number of them who are reaching out to me asking questions.

Anyone who would like to contribute history about DayStar, WL's two sons, the control of LSM, etc. would have a lot to bring to the table.

I'm still learning since I have only been out for a couple of months and many of you have had years of learning.

Thanks so much and once again thank you for this forum!
~J

Thanks, MrsFreedom for your effort. Regardless of your intention, I believe you are setting up a good example of how to publicly react when a disenchanted saint leaves the vicious system.

The exactly same thing as you described in FB post is happening in my country, South Korea. Recently one of leading brother who is close to me stepped down from the leadership position in the Church in Seoul citing his personal stuffs. But, I know he has passed through a lot of troubles during his service. Most of leading brothers in Korea are wearing the persona to still support the Lord Recovery, but actually they know there is something wrong.

The only reason they still are there is... authority, financial needs, and fears to be condemned as rebellious. In a sense, they devoted their youth and now in their 40s, 50s, 60s, where they could go?

BTW, WL's failures are surprisingly similar to WN's. If you have any spare time, I recommend you reading "My Unforgettable Memories: Watchman Nee and Shanghai Local Church" now available in eBook format at Amazon. I saw history is repeating...