Are All Christian Groups Spiritual Fornicators?

[Kevin]

I'm no scholar in writing this paper. But I have gone deeper study on this issue. Why did I decide to write this response? The LC leaders have mouthed me against my current church as a spiritual fornicator. Now I pointed out the inconsistencies, and logical fallacies as well as that there is no biblical warrant for a church name and the bad use of the Revelation 3:8 passage. Please do consideration that English is not my primary language.

[aron]

Kevin, very nice article. I myself can't write such well-constructed arguments, because my attention span is too short probably, but I welcome others. Thanks for making the effort.

1. I agree that if Miss Jones marries Mr. Smith and keeps her name, then she can still go to church and nobody will say anything. I have seen this in the Lord's Recovery. Often the woman has some professional standing and wants to keep her name. Nobody says a word about it. But they receive Witness Lee's teaching as if it was valid. It is not.

2. I asked the Lord's Recovery church where I met, why they had to take a name and register with the government as a 403(c) organisation. They said, "We have to". Huh? No you don't - where in the NT does it say that you have to register with the government? Talk about Pergamos - married to the world! Why condemn others if you do it?

3. The irony with the Lord's Recovery is the names that sprout so easily there. Christians on Campus, Affirmation and Critique, Lord's Move to Europe, Living Stream Ministry, Continuing Steadfastly, Bibles for America (and Russia and Germany &c), Defense and Confirmation Project, Full-Time Training Centres and so forth. Every 7 or 8 months you'd see a new name come out... some new ancillary named and publicly-registered non-profit entity would appear. "But it's not the church".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm no scholar in writing this paper. But I have gone deeper study on this issue. Why did I decide to write this response? The LC leaders have mouthed me against my current church as a spiritual fornicator. Now I pointed out the inconsistencies, and logical fallacies as well as that there is no biblical warrant for a church name and the bad use of the Revelation 3:8 passage. Please do consideration that English is not my primary language.

Kevin I encourage you to write more. The more you write, the more you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

The Recovery program is filled with hypocrisies. Don't expect their leaders to accept anything that you write. The Lord often confronted these hypocrites in the Gospels. Apparently none of them were convinced by Jesus either.

[Cal]

Kevin,

Well done! Keep doing this. Your insights are helpful.


The "wife only takes the name of the husband" analogy is as you said a cultural not biblical phenomenon, so it is a meaningless argument. It's even worse than that. Wives take their husbands last name, but keep their unique first name, which even the husband happily uses. So "ABC Community Church" could be seen as an identifying "first name" with the surname still "Christ." Either way, Lee's argument falls apart upon examination. As much of his teaching, it only impresses an audience that feels they have no choice but to believe it.

As you imply, distinctions are not division. Division, in fact, is not what "ABC Community Church" does by having its name, but what the LR does by discounting groups like "ABC Community Church." They are masters at straining gnats and swallowing camels.

All of the LR's teachings about "oneness" are really not about oneness (though they have convinced themselves they are). They are about a scorched earth policy of discrediting every group other than themselves. They really feel the Lord is better served by everyone agreeing with and joining them, so to them that end justifies any means they use. This is at the very least frightfully arrogant and at the worst dangerously deluded.

(Also, humble thanks for including my little piece. I forgot I wrote that. I learned something from it!)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Kevin I encourage you to write more. The more you write, the more you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

The Recovery program is filled with hypocrisies. Don't expect their leaders to accept anything that you write. The Lord often confronted these hypocrites in the Gospels. Apparently none of them were convinced by Jesus either.

The LC elders refused to listen to what Scripture is trying to say.

Jesus is commending the church in Philadelphia for not loosing faith and remaining loyal to him. That's the point of what Jesus getting at. Having a denomination doesn’t make you loyal to that teacher who started that denomination at the expense of Jesus himself.

Witness Lee's critical view on Christianity is an attempt to deceive many precious people to make them believe that there is nothing good in Christianity than the Lord's Recovery movement.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The LC elders refused to listen to what Scripture is trying to say.

Jesus is commending the church in Philadelphia for not loosing faith and remaining loyal to him. That's the point of what Jesus getting at. Having a denomination doesn’t make you loyal to that teacher who started that denomination at the expense of Jesus himself.

Witness Lee's critical view on Christianity is an attempt to deceive many precious people to make them believe that there is nothing good in Christianity than the Lord's Recovery movement.

Kevin, you should note that the ground of locality was never properly learned from scriptures, rather it was used by Nee in China during the early 20th Century as a means to declare indepenence from Western missionaries. I found this a little disconcerting since these missionaries sacrificed their lives to bring the Gospel to them.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Kevin, you should note that the ground of locality was never properly learned from scriptures, rather it was used by Nee in China during the early 20th Century as a means to declare indepenence from Western missionaries. I found this a little disconcerting since these missionaries sacrificed their lives to bring the Gospel to them.

In the genesis of this movement one should appreciate the degree of anti-Western sentiment behind it. Both Nee and Lee's parents were Christian and were persecuted. Nee's 'local ground' proposal, learnt from Darby et al, seemingly cut the Gordian knot and they streamed in by the tens of thousands.

But as Breadfish noted, any who critically examine the teachings got shunted aside and the mass became 'yes robots'. We now see imperialism redux as exported Chinese-flavored churches emerge. In some western communities the Chinese-speakers are so prevalent that they've segregated themselves from the natives. As long as they call it a "meeting" and not a "church" they presume propriety. But guess what - the NT Greek has the same word for each. Ekklesia.

If the Lord's Recovery's basis or ground is judgment and condemnation of others for spiritual fornication, then how will they find the means for repentance and forgiveness when they're similarly found? I mean, who is without fault?

[Kevin]

A lot of folks from the LC who knew me personally have expressed their disappointment towards me for pointing this error. They "hung up" on the "name." I find that anyone who is narrowly focused on "the name" is someone who is off track. It is a "red flag" of warning: watch out for those who make a big deal about the "name."

Giving a "name" to a local church is NOT deserting the Lord's "name." It is not spiritual fornication to leave a local church if there is a problem. Problems cannot always be solved due to the flesh and spiritual warfare.

Here I stand. I am challenging those who are in Local Church of Witness Lee to reconsider their doctrinal views if their views are aligned with Scripture. Sadly, they don't speak for sola scriptura and tota scriptura! They adhere to Scripture + Experiences + MOTA.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

In the genesis of this movement one should appreciate the degree of anti-Western sentiment behind it. Both Nee and Lee's parents were Christian and were persecuted. Nee's 'local ground' proposal, learnt from Darby et al, seemingly cut the Gordian knot and they streamed in by the tens of thousands.

Are you suggesting that Western missionaries were involved with the persecution of the Nee and Lee families?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

Nee's 'local ground' proposal, learnt from Darby et al, seemingly cut the Gordian knot and they streamed in by the tens of thousands.

I've said before that the "local ground" doctrine was intended to invalidate all other groups as much as it was intended to validate Nee's group.