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Originally Posted by aron

You quoted 1 Cor 13:5, which says that love keeps no record of wrongs. Yet when we speak of judgment it seems God does keep a record of wrongs.

So then this "no record" contingent is on repentance?

aron, I've been thinking about this post and your question for a while. I don't have an answer but I have a response and more questions.

There are natural negative consequences of our sinful actions (e.g., sex outside monogamy/marriage could lead to STDs, a constantly explosive temper could lead to a heart attack, etc), and then there is actual judgment of God that doesn't follow logically from the sin (God opening up a sinkhole and swallowing you up because of your explosive temper, for a poor example).

A young kid steals a 6-pack of beer and drinks it all.....the consequence is the raging headache and being sick to their stomach, the judgment is the parental spanking and grounding. But in that situation there can also be forgiveness. So it seems consequence, judgment, and forgiveness are not mutually exclusive and can all occur without being contradictory.

That doesn't touch much on your question, but I wanted to say that much to differentiate between consequences and judgment so I could ask this question: Is there any evidence that God ever judges us in the age of grace? I don't know the answer.

(As an aside, an older LC sister told me very confidently one time that the Challenger explosion was God's judgment because we were being too bold and brazen in trying to explore the universe. I do not agree.)

I emailed a pastor something along the lines of your "is no record contingent on repentance" question recently, except replace "no record" with "forgiveness".....which to me are similar or the same. (Once you or God forgives a wrong it is taken off "the record"). Based on the message the pastor had given, it seemed like he was saying that as Christians we are called to forgive others, even when they don't repent or show remorse or ask for forgiveness. I can comprehend that for small offenses, but when people really betray/backstab/lie etc and don't care that they've gutted you, I personally have an almost impossible time forgiving an offense that reaches a certain magnitude that remains unrepented for.

Since this is something I struggle with a lot (possibly the most) my question to the pastor was essentially, how can we be called to forgive others (take it "off the record") to this extent when God only takes off the record what we've repented and confessed? It seems like we are being held to a higher standard than God.

His response (this was just a brief email exchange, not an in depth dissertation) was that if forgiveness is dependent on us identifying every single one of our sins, confessing, and repenting, then we would be without hope. How many sins have we committed that we don't even know about! But our God is faithful to forgive even the ones we aren't aware of. However, if we are aware of sin, then it is certainly on us to confess and repent.

This answer seems consistent with my experience - how many negative thoughts do we have every day? How many times are we a bit short with people, how many times are our thoughts not where they should be, how many times do we wish we had what our neighbor has, etc, etc, etc? There is no possible way to know, keep track of, remember, or confess all those things. But if God doesn't make us aware of them, how can we be held to repent of them and have them taken off the record? But, as far as I know, God doesn't judge us for these things, or else we would seriously have no hope. I know these are much smaller sins than the one in the OP.

So maybe "no record" is contingent upon repentance of what God requires you repent of? I don't know. Just throwing thoughts out there.

Trapped