The Psalms are the word of Christ

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Luther did not recover justification by faith.

WL was the worst historian of church history in the history of the church.

Further to the scholarly sources which I presented that shows that Huss did not recover justification by faith alone, here is a ChristianityToday article which supports the idea that Luther recovered justification by faith:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...-by-faith.html

Luther’s emphasis on justification by faith was not a discovery, but a recovery.


It is good to see that scholars and a top historian can support Lee's belief that Luther recovered justification by faith.

Ohio is spreading lies twice - that Luther did not recovery justification by faith, and that Lee was a bad historian.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Further to the scholarly sources which I presented that shows that Huss did not recover justification by faith alone, here is a ChristianityToday article which supports the idea that Luther recovered justification by faith:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...-by-faith.html

Luther’s emphasis on justification by faith was not a discovery, but a recovery.


It is good to see that scholars and a top historian can support Lee's belief that Luther recovered justification by faith.

Ohio is spreading lies twice - that Luther did not recovery justification by faith, and that Lee was a bad historian.

For 1500 years God's chosen people were justified by faith in His Son's death on the cross. Read Miller's Church History or Broadbent or Schaaf. God has always had a people who were His own. I already told you that Luther said he was a Hussite -- he began to know these same truths one hundred years earlier -- and Huss learned from others.

There is no "recovery." It was called the "reformation." Go read the history books. Huss, Luther, Calvin, Farel, Tyndale, Zwingli, and thousands more tried to "reform" the Catholic Church. They couldn't do it.

They all got QUARANTINED by the pope, just like so many "reformers" like John Ingalls or Titus Chu in the LC's got quarantined by Lee and the Blindeds.

You and Lee act like there never was a genuine Christian, or a real church, or anyone saved by faith until Luther was born. Absurd. Read church history.

And, like I said, I would not believe a single thing Lee taught about church history unless I have second source corroborating evidence. Luther was not the first MOTA.

And I could care less if you call me a liar. Bible says all men are liars, only God is true!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For 1500 years God's chosen people were justified by faith in His Son's death on the cross. Read Miller's Church History or Broadbent or Schaaf. God has always had a people who were His own. I already told you that Luther said he was a Hussite -- he began to know these same truths one hundred years earlier -- and Huss learned from others.

There is no "recovery." It was called the "reformation." Go read the history books. Huss, Luther, Calvin, Farel, Tyndale, Zwingli, and thousands more tried to "reform" the Catholic Church. They couldn't do it.

They all got QUARANTINED by the pope, just like so many "reformers" like John Ingalls or Titus Chu in the LC's got quarantined by Lee and the Blindeds.

You and Lee act like there never was a genuine Christian, or a real church, or anyone saved by faith until Luther was born. Absurd. Read church history.

And, like I said, I would not believe a single thing Lee taught about church history unless I have second source corroborating evidence. Luther was not the first MOTA.

And I could care less if you call me a liar. Bible says all men are liars, only God is true!

Then there were plenty of heretical groups trying to Reform the Catholics as well, the Cathars for example.

I don't know what history books you are reading.

The history books I read, by real experts, say that Huss did not recover justification by faith.

Experts also do not see Huss, Wycliffe etc as being part of the Reformation. That is why they are called proto-Protestants, in a sort of proto-Reformation. But really they are distinct events at distinct times, each with a slightly different reason for reforming the Church.

The history books I read tell me that the Lutheran and Reformed theology was not a continuation of the groups that went before.

Even if it was, no one advanced it as much as Luther and other Reformers - the actual Reformation.

When presented with the facts, you can't argue ignorance, so if continuing to spread non-facts, these would be considered lies.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Then there were plenty of heretical groups trying to Reform the Catholics as well, the Cathars for example.

I don't know what history books you are reading.

The history books I read, by real experts, say that Huss did not recover justification by faith.

Experts also do not see Huss, Wycliffe etc as being part of the Reformation. That is why they are called proto-Protestants, in a sort of proto-Reformation. But really they are distinct events at distinct times, each with a slightly different reason for reforming the Church.

The history books I read tell me that the Lutheran and Reformed theology was not a continuation of the groups that went before.

Even if it was, no one advanced it as much as Luther and other Reformers - the actual Reformation.

When presented with the facts, you can't argue ignorance, so if continuing to spread non-facts, these would be considered lies.

I'm still missing where all of these scholars say that Martin Luther started "The Recovery" and that Luther was the first Minister of the Age "MOTA," because this is the foundation of LC history as I was taught by W. Lee.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm still missing where all of these scholars say that Martin Luther started "The Recovery" and that Luther was the first Minister of the Age "MOTA," because this is the foundation of LC history as I was taught by W. Lee.

I quoted a scholar before here, who says that Luther recovered justification by faith:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...-by-faith.html

Both traditions can appreciate Luther’s famous dictum as a recovery, not a discovery.

I think they are saying that both Catholic and Protestant can appreciate that Luther recovered justification by faith.

Luther started the recovery of justification by faith (alone) and I think the scholars support that. While Wycliffe, Hus, and others, even Catholics, talk about faith, and being justified by faith, but they don't teach the same things that Luther did or the faith implies faith+works.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Both traditions can appreciate Luther’s famous dictum as a recovery, they are saying that both Catholic and Protestant can appreciate that Luther recovered justification by faith..

And the EOC? Your view is more defensible in Western Europe struggling to emerge from centuries of medeivalism, than 21st century global Christianity.

Also note all the spin-offs, each claiming further restoration or recovery. Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddy, etc. Then the spin-offs get spin-offs. With the LC, now they wonder "who has the mantle"? The splinter groups all claim the true line from Martin Luther.

For that matter, perhaps the Eastern Lightning carefully traces their Mota lineage back through WL and Luther. It helps getting converts, you know. The patina of credibility.