The Mormon Church is "The Church"?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

byHismercy,

How about the additions of the writer of Hebrews?

Consider this....

"For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three witnesses. By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has considered the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay"; and again "The Lord will judge His people". It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:29-31

This word, is aimed at correcting any thought or idea that God is so merciful, and that His words of grace so cover His chosen, that while the unbelievers will suffer the punishment of His indignation, they who had been sealed with His Spirit's seal will somehow escape.

Baloney?

This word is spoken to believers byHismercy. It is not an easy word, not a comfortable word, not a comforting word, but it is His word and we cannot ignore it.

Drake

The word you quoted says, "if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth". . . why did Witness Lee dun the flock for cash to fund his son Timothy's business (Daystar), even after knowing that this had already caused so much harm already (Taiwan & Seattle World's Fair 1962)? Why did he let Son Philip remain in a position of responsibility even after knowing this had caused much stumbling to those for whom Christ died?

Why did Lee continue in his behaviours after causing so much harm, and why do LSM operatives continue in whitewashing his criminal deeds (i.e. money-laundering)? Where's the "fearful expectation of judgment" evidenced, o indignant one? And then you try to intimidate others?? I'm more worried about facing the Lord if I don't say something.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

Where's the "fearful expectation of judgment" evidenced, o indignant one? And then you try to intimidate others?? I'm more worried about facing the Lord if I don't say something.

"o Indignant one"?

Better read those verses again aron and pay close attention to who is described there as indignant..... and then have a closer read of Matthew 5:22 and talk to the Lord to resolve the on-going problem you have with certain brothers... while you are still on the way... before its too late and you have to meet the Lord at His BEMA in your present condition.

Now, awareness got us going on the wind track.... and LofT is trying to bring it back... what do you have to share about the topic of this thread?

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

Better read those verses again aron and pay close attention to who is described there as indignant..... and then have a closer read of Matthew 5:22 and talk to the Lord to resolve the on-going problem you have with certain brothers... while you are still on the way... before its too late and you have to meet the Lord at His BEMA in your present condition.

My present condition is to point out the discrepancy between the Bible and the LC of Nee and Lee. I have pointed them out, and somehow this is construed as an offense against God. Rather I think the offense is to keep one's mouth shut, yet knowing of the problems. Witness Lee wanted us to forgive his messy kitchen yet he continually pointed out deficiencies in others.

Either God raised Jesus from the dead on the third day or no. Either you believe or no. This is the gospel message. Not the "recovered church".

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

Do not be swayed by voices in this forum that slander brothers in a very personal way and then excuse the consequences by teaching that God will overlook that sin because they believed in the Son. Scripture shows otherwise.

Witness Lee and his ilk the Blendeds have slandered brothers and sisters in a very personal way and we had to passively sit there and absorb the curse. No longer.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

My present condition is to point out the discrepancy between the Bible and the LC of Nee and Lee. I have pointed them out, and somehow this is construed as an offense against God. Rather I think the offense is to keep one's mouth shut, yet knowing of the problems. Witness Lee wanted us to forgive his messy kitchen yet he continually pointed out deficiencies in others.

Either God raised Jesus from the dead on the third day or no. Either you believe or no. This is the gospel message. Not the "recovered church".

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

...... well, good luck with that.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

At least I'm not charging 50 bucks a head like your so-called apostle did.

I like the term "reasonable". It reminds me of the terms "genuine" and "proper"; the true meanings of which could only be sussed out by "the oracle" who had "the mantle". I'm pointing out the absurdity of the LC position. It's built on sensory experience of rhythmic calling and chanting and shouting and the commensurate thought-repression. If that makes you uncomfortable too bad. Maybe you should think about why that is so.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

At least I'm not charging 50 bucks a head like your so-called apostle did.

I like the term "reasonable". It reminds me of the terms "genuine" and "proper"; the true meanings of which could only be sussed out by "the oracle" who had "the mantle". I'm pointing out the absurdity of the LC position. It's built on sensory experience of rhythmic calling and chanting and shouting and the commensurate thought-repression. If that makes you uncomfortable too bad. Maybe you should think about why that is so.

Aron,

I get uncomfortable and alarmed when I see any brother wallow in the gutter and headed for the judgment loaded down with a truck load of offenses against members of the Body of Christ such as you have, Yet, please don’t over value the impact of your slanders in this forum... what seems to you like a hurricane has really only blown over a lawn chair or two. The consequences of your deeds and actions will fall upon you and you alone. My warnings to you are like those who cry out when they notice a child walking through a busy intersection.

It’s okay to disagree. Brothers can and often do.....but you’ve gone too far.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22

"Gleefully"? Now who's imputing, Mr. Rolleyes?

Originally Posted by Drake

It’s okay to disagree. Brothers can and often do.....but you’ve gone too far.

How is it that no one, at any time, got to tell Mr. Lee, "You've gone too far"? When his hand-picked cadre of "senior co-workers" tried, they were sacked. Apparently they never got the memo that Asian culture doesn't allow Big Boss to get exposed.

Now, Asian culture isn't inferior to Swiss or Swedish. But it isn't heavenly, and the tale that God found "virgin soil" in China is hogwash. Paul wrote, "Against an elder don't receive accusation unless by two or three witnesses". ~1 Tim 5:19. But there were far more than two or three witnesses against Papa Witness & sons. If they'd been heard, this forum probably wouldn't exist, with all the "gleeful name-calling" as you suppose it to be.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

...... well, good luck with that.

Drake

Drake, I know you wont respond to my posts because I have exposed LSM's deceitful activities, including those in the Midwest, but I would only ask the reader:

How is it "hate-mongering" to warn others about the dangers of LSM? These ones come to this forum after an internet search and ask questions. Do not ex-members have a responsibility to warn others?

Where was Drake when Lee and sons damaged so many trusting saints? Where was Drake when Phillip Lee was molesting the sisters who volunteered at LSM? Where was Drake when the saints' life savings were wiped out by investing in the Daystar motor home boondoggle? Is not the top priority of every real shepherd to protect the church of God? Why has Drake made it his life's mission to protect a ministry which damages people in the name of God?

Instead of threatening the forum shepherds with biblical judgments, Drake should read about the biblical warnings about evil shepherds.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

[B]How is it "hate-mongering" to warn others about the dangers of LSM? These ones come to this forum after an internet search and ask questions. Do not ex-members have a responsibility to warn others?

Where was Drake when Lee and sons damaged so many trusting saints? Where was Drake when Phillip Lee was molesting the sisters who volunteered at LSM? Where was Drake when the saints' life savings were wiped out by investing in the Daystar motor home boondoggle? Is not the top priority of every real shepherd to protect the church of God? Why has Drake made it his life's mission to protect a ministry which damages people in the name of God?

Instead of threatening the forum shepherds with biblical judgments, Drake should read about the biblical warnings about evil shepherds.

Seems as if Drake is being a tad subjective: forum posters are "wallowing in the gutter" and "hate-mongering" and indulging in "slander" and are due for divine justice, but Lee & Company were and are "proper" and "frank" and "honest" and so forth. And these assertions are made on what basis, what criteria? Well, evidently that he wishes it were so.

The Mormon Church, like the Jehovah's Witnesses & the Local Church of the Living Stream Ministry, are all interested in Jesus Christ, but only as a springboard to their proprietary "recovered truth" in which they pin the unwary.

We've here noted the failure in the LC teachings and the harm done to many of the adherents. I for one apologize if my tone isn't very nice. I wish there were a way to make the case more pleasantly. Certainly some have done better than I. But the case still should be made.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

Seems as if Drake is being a tad subjective:

Subjective?

Nay. nay aron.... anyone who reads your posts knows exactly what is written. They may not admit it or want to admit it for whatever reason.

Still, what I find amazing is how brazen you are to justify berating and ridiculing christians day in and day out. The moral equivalency argument you advance may help you sleep at night, assuming your conscience is not already shipwrecked, but it won't stand up in the day of the Lord at least if Matthew 5:22 and Hebrews is any indication. I mean, do you really think that when your posts are reviewed in that Day that you will be getting high fives? Hopefully, you know better.

Drake

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by aron

The Mormon Church, like the Jehovah's Witnesses & the Local Church of the Living Stream Ministry, are all interested in Jesus Christ, but only as a springboard to their proprietary "recovered truth" in which they pin the unwary.

I cannot see how anyone can make such a comparison - the Jesus Christ of the Mormon Church is an alien being of a tri-God.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

Though I am admittedly sarcastic at times, and for good reason, there is no "Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment," as you say. Many faithful LC members have been hurt by those at LSM whom you protect, many of them, young and old, and yet you still refuse to repent or take ownership for any of it.

It's hard to believe that you could casually dismiss all of their pain and suffering. Let me remind you what our Lord said once about a millstone.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Drake

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

...... well, good luck with that.

Drake

What about you? You crossed the same line and did the same thing you accuse others of doing. Hypocrisy and condescension.
.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Nell

What about you? You crossed the same line and did the same thing you accuse others of doing. Hypocrisy and condescension.
.

Hi Nell,

Happy to have this conversation.

Please show where I crossed the line of “reasonable and reputable disagreement” with brother Aron.

Drake