Bible Answer Man Converts to Eastern Orthodox!

[awareness]

Hey, we're on our way to defining what it means to become god. Now we know it doesn't mean becoming the trinity, or being worshiped. And oh ... not in the godhead. Our definition is short. I still don't know what it means to become god.

Maybe we're confusing theosis with henosis.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hey, we're on our way to defining what it means to become god. Now we know it doesn't mean becoming the trinity, or being worshiped. And oh ... not in the godhead. Our definition is short. I still don't know what it means to become god.

Maybe we're confusing theosis with henosis.

Well, that is progress.

It is having the life of God in our spirit, soul, and body.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Well, that is progress.

It is having the life of God in our spirit, soul, and body.

Drake

Truth is the experience of union with God is a most joyful experience. And the truth is for me is that I can have more of a profound experience of union with God, in the woods, on my back, watching the stars move by in the tree tops, or just sitting out back staring into a star filled sky at night, than I ever had in local church meetings, conferences, or any church meeting for that matter.

And it is said that the end result of henosis is deification. So for me, the possibly of deification, is greater in the woods, than in Witness Lee's meetings, and/or conferences ... including the FTT ... or any church meeting, except maybe in the silent meetings of the Quakers.

Shouting for God and Jesus indicates a desperate distance from union with God.

[Evangelical]

This is a quick note about the biblical meaning of "milk" and "meat", because the use of the terms by some here is not correct.

Milk means the basic elementary teachings of Christianity, first learnt by new believers. Gospel of justification, for example.

Meat means the deeper spiritual truths (more solid, complete and deeper spiritual doctrines of the Gospel). Gospel of glorification or theosis, for example, as it is the more complete gospel.

These definitions are straight from the Greek, explained here:

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/w...the-bible.html

If you are a new believer, then milk is good for you. If you are a long time believer, then you probably should not talk about "going back to milk" as it implies immaturity. The Bible encourages us to leave the elementary things and go onwards.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This is a quick note about the biblical meaning of "milk" and "meat", because the use of the terms by some here is not correct.

Milk means the basic elementary teachings of Christianity, first learnt by new believers. Gospel of justification, for example.

Meat means the deeper spiritual truths (more solid, complete and deeper spiritual doctrines of the Gospel). Gospel of glorification or theosis, for example, as it is the more complete gospel.

These definitions are straight from the Greek, explained here:

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/w...the-bible.html

If you are a new believer, then milk is good for you. If you are a long time believer, then you probably should not talk about "going back to milk" as it implies immaturity. The Bible encourages us to leave the elementary things and go onwards.

Okay and thanks. Yes, that would probably be the specific and correct usage of the term "milk" as it relates to real scriptural knowledge. So maybe it's just better to drop the "milk" and say "the pure word" to denote its difference from men's thoughts. (i.e., going to the pure word first rather than men's commentaries)

And, as stated earlier, we also must be careful when using the term "meat" as it pertains to the divine revelation. Because too often that can be used almost as a "I am of Christ" sort of thing, such as "We have the real meat and you don't!" In that case, all one has is dead, puffed-up knowledge - I speak from good experience, having gone after saints many times with this non-building-up-in-love, rotting knowledge "meat!"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So if Lee was a non-theologian (wow, big revelation there, bro!) then why are you comparing and contrasting his teachings with a genuine, bonafide theologian like Blackwell? It begs the question...why do you believe that Witness Lee is The One Minister with the One Ministry for the Age? Why do you believe that Lee was the only person on earth speaking as God's oracle?
-

If we really get down to it, Dr. Blackwell would be a scholar for Lee to learn from, and reference. But Lee, a self professed history buff, wouldn't cite sources from poor, poor, poor, Christianity, specially if they were more knowledgeable than him.

And yes, the idea of theosis has been around a long time. In fact, much longer than Christianity. Apotheosis goes back to at least ancient Greek philosophy. In fact, we get these terms, theosis and apotheosis, from the Greeks ; as well as the name for God, theos, with no capitalizing, whether little god, as in 'know ye not that ye are gods,' or speaking of the Father God.

Witness Lee did not cook up the idea of God in life and nature, 'cept to word it that specific way.

So this idea of theosis has been around a long long time. But in all of history there's been only one to achieve it, according to the NT. Not even Paul achieved it.

But then we haven't clearly defined what it means to become G(g)od. In life and nature says nothing. All we've clarified so far is that it's not in the trinity, worship worthy, or in the Godhead. I think that's called negative theology.

I still want to know what a true godman, if such exists, is. How is he or she different from non-godmen?

Do they love their neighbors more? If so, given that Lee didn't display much love for his neighbors, specially Christian neighbors, and even good brothers in his own group, Lee never came close to being a godman. He just talked the talk.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

I still want to know what a true godman, if such exists, is. How is he or she different from non-godmen? .

Awareness,

No human being dead or alive will satisfy the question for you.

Therefore, I think the NT writers and those they wrote about, like Stephen in Acts, are the best examples of “true Godmen”. Just stick with those as your examples to follow. Look no further.

Drake

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by awareness

I still want to know what a true godman, if such exists, is. How is he or she different from non-godmen?

Originally Posted by Drake

No human being dead or alive will satisfy the question for you.

Probably a real strong indication that something is not biblical, at least not in the way it is being taught.
-

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Awareness,

No human being dead or alive will satisfy the question for you.

Therefore, I think the NT writers and those they wrote about, like Stephen in Acts, are the best examples of “true Godmen”. Just stick with those as your examples to follow. Look no further.

Drake

Let's not sell those short in the NT that performed miracles. If I could heal people, just by my shadow passing over them, I think most, even atheists, would have to consider that I was a form of a god. And if I could forgive sins. Also if I could see into the future.

Are such behaviors characteristic of godmen? Sign me up. But again, in those regards, Lee didn't cut the mustard, and the big talker wasn't a godman. If he didn't make it, do you and I ever have a chance?

And if we can't reach the NT standard, then what's the point of becoming a godman?

I remember in the LC, I felt that I fell so short, because I wasn't like those in the NT. I remember literally praying my guts out because I wasn't like them, to the point of constantly having a knot in my stomach. I really really wanted to be a godman like them.

I finally concluded that God wanted those godmen back then, but ain't doing that today. Even The Recovery didn't recover that ... and won't.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's not sell those short in the NT that performed miracles. If I could heal people, just by my shadow passing over them, I think most, even atheists, would have to consider that I was a form of a god.

Good point. In Acts 14, when the people in Lystra thought Barnabas and Paul were gods and wanted to worship them, why didn't they take the opportunity to preach the high peak truth? - "You people are wrong. You should not worship me. But you are half right. We are no Zeus or Hermes, but we are men becoming God in live and in nature but not in the Godhead."

Instead, their reply was "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men of like feeling as you, and announce the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and the sea and all things in them;..." (Acts 14:15)

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's not sell those short in the NT that performed miracles. If I could heal people, just by my shadow passing over them, I think most, even atheists, would have to consider that I was a form of a god. And if I could forgive sins. Also if I could see into the future.

Are such behaviors characteristic of godmen? Sign me up. But again, in those regards, Lee didn't cut the mustard, and the big talker wasn't a godman. If he didn't make it, do you and I ever have a chance?

And if we can't reach the NT standard, then what's the point of becoming a godman?

I remember in the LC, I felt that I fell so short, because I wasn't like those in the NT. I remember literally praying my guts out because I wasn't like them, to the point of constantly having a knot in my stomach. I really really wanted to be a godman like them.

I finally concluded that God wanted those godmen back then, but ain't doing that today. Even The Recovery didn't recover that ... and won't.

Bro awareness,

Not sure what you prayed for exactly concerning being like those in the NT. The living of a Godman is not a life of extraordinary events .....but rather an extraordinary Life lived in the context of human events.

An example of this not in the NT is Blandina, a young slave sister martyred for her faith who never denied the Lord in spite of the situation. There were no miracles performed unless you consider her remaining steadfast under those circumstances a miracle. Hers was a Godman living... and a Godman dying.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blandina

Yet, not every human event entails martyrdom. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling the Apostle charges us.... a daily salvation from whatever human life presents to us empowered by the indwelling resurrected Life of God. A demonstration that His grace is sufficient. That is the Godman living..

Drake