If you were in Scottsdale would you take the Table..

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Trapped

In my question I did not refer to Scottsdale. I am not talking about "Witness Lee's groups" or "StG's group". We are talking about the principles of determining a genuine church. Human names do not play a factor in determining the genuineness of a church.

I am speaking of a situation where two different groups that have no connection or offshooting one from another, who completely independently from each other, both consider themselves the genuine church in that city and believe all other gatherings are NOT the genuine church. In that case, which one is the genuine church? Are you saying it is just who claimed dibbsies first? If so, what if they were established at the same time? Which one, regardless of what they think about themselves, is truly the genuine church?

If two groups of believers are completely independent and started at the same time and did not genuinely know about the other ones existing, then both are gatherings of the one genuine church in the city I would think.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If two groups of believers are completely independent and started at the same time and did not genuinely know about the other ones existing, then both are gatherings of the one genuine church in the city I would think.

Now you are shuffling words around - "groups" and "churches" and "gatherings". The word "church" by definition means a gathering.

Peter the illiterate fisherman and Paul the sophisticated urban Pharisee preached the same gospel in the book of Acts, that God had raised Jesus from the dead. Everything we do and speak and live is either a furtherance of this testimony or a distraction from it; this applies both as individuals and when collectively assembled together. As Stg has said, it's a message wholly centered on redeeming love. The Son loved the Father and obeyed, and the Father loved the Son and raised him to glory. There is nothing else.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by aron

Now you are shuffling words around - "groups" and "churches" and "gatherings". The word "church" by definition means a gathering.

Peter the illiterate fisherman and Paul the sophisticated urban Pharisee preached the same gospel in the book of Acts, that God had raised Jesus from the dead. Everything we do and speak and live is either a furtherance of this testimony or a distraction from it; this applies both as individuals and when collectively assembled together. As Stg has said, it's a message wholly centered on redeeming love. The Son loved the Father and obeyed, and the Father loved the Son and raised him to glory. There is nothing else.

You are describing the gospel here and not discussing on topic. Gospel preaching is not for the church it's for outsiders who need to be saved. There is no verse in scripture which shows an evangelist being sent to a church to evangelize a church - if a church needs evangelizing it is not a church at all. You are getting confused just as you are confused over the meaning of ekklesia. The topic is church, and specifically, how do we observe the Lord's Table? In this sense, there is something else, it's called the Lord's Table, and Jesus asked us to observe it, and many think it is okay to observe it however we please. These same sort of people observe the Lord's birthday however they please, on a date which is not his real one, and in a way which celebrates other things, pagan things, at the same time. Their love for the Lord is shown by the disregard they have for his wishes in the matter, and it seems okay for them to observe the Lord's Table in front of a television, with a hamburger and a beer, because they love Jesus. And if there is two or three of them, a family, gathered in front of the television, it is, by definition a church (two or three gathered together), and must have a lampstand. Until we come to Revelation, the light of God's Word, which reveals that one church in each city each has only one lamp stand. Therefore, a simple gathering of two or three believers in front of the television, cannot be a church by biblical definition.