Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Hasty generalization!

Here in Grace Baptist Church, we have cell groups where everyone has the opportunity to share from their studies and meditations on the scripture. And everyone are encouraged to evangelize the lost. You err to generalize every Christian groups with clergy-laity system!

I remember one Full-Timer commenting to me in private about how easy it was to be a Christian in the denominations -- only coming one hour a week to church.

It just shows you how insulated they are from any contact with the real world. All they know about other Christian churches are the cheap comments drummed into them for years. Is this not the very definition of prejudice and stereotyping?

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It just shows you how insulated they are from any contact with the real world. All they know about other Christian churches are the cheap comments drummed into them for years. Is this not the very definition of prejudice and stereotyping?

The “recovery” doesn’t work without condemning other Christians. It is a pillar or foundation of Lee’s ministry. They are not set apart by demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit or the works of their “ministry”, but instead, by considering themselves over Poor, Poor, Christianity. We saw Drake point to some Beyoncé service or Joel Osteen church that hosted a secular performance group - clearly insulated from reality.

This is one of the major reasons why I think the LSM will not be around for much longer. Young people are much more aware and sensitive to this type of stereotyping of groups. The information is out there for them to access and see how God is moving across the world. For some, it is fun to be a part of an exclusive group who hold all the secrets and are much more “enlightened” - but I feel that this type of thinking is much harder to find in the millennial generation.

Jonah whined to God when He spared Nineveh, His heart was hard towards these sinful people. To those in the LSM-Don’t let your heart harden towards actual believers, the sons and daughters of Christ’s Church.


Praise God that he offers His gift of salvation to all!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

The “recovery” doesn’t work without condemning other Christians. It is a pillar or foundation of Lee’s ministry. They are not set apart by demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit or the works of their “ministry”, but instead, by considering themselves over Poor, Poor, Christianity.

Like the school yard bully who must beat all others down so that he seems to "rise above."

[Sons to Glory!]

Okay, since this is a thread of good things to come out of the Recovery, let's get back to that!

So what about the Recovery's focus on the indwelling Christ? Again, I know they didn't invent this (since it is perhaps THE central theme of the New Covenant) and are not the only ones so focused. But, as said, 95% of what I hear out there seems to be a version of Christianity via Judaism.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Okay, since this is a thread of good things to come out of the Recovery, let's get back to that!

Good luck with that.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Drake

Good luck with that.

I have positive expectancy!

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

Good luck with that.

I agree with Drake. It’s difficult, right? I mean on one hand everything that happens in the LSM churches isn’t all bad. But, in a way, you could say that about any group, Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, etc.

I think if you asked my mother-in-law (who’s family visited JW churches when she was young, but became a believer later in life) would say she has nothing good to say about the JW churches. This has been the sentiment for many who have grown up in the WL churches - what they’ve posted on this forum.

Now I didn’t grow up in the WL churches, thank God, but I would have to say that any positive aspect of the LC had a shadow side that outweighed the good. Fellowship of believers, organizational structure, home meetings, college outreach, etc. Witness Lee’s ministry is stale and lifeless, the church he’s created in his name is dying, and the dear brothers and sisters are confused and left alone to tackle the struggles of finding the Lord in Lee’s ministry. Putting on a smile, some makeup, reading Lee’s writings, and saying a hearty Amen isn’t feeding their souls like only Christ can.

Maybe the only good to come out of the “recovery” is the process of coming out of the “recovery” and going into recovery in the Father’s arms.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Okay, since this is a thread of good things to come out of the Recovery, let's get back to that!

So what about the Recovery's focus on the indwelling Christ? Again, I know they didn't invent this (since it is perhaps THE central theme of the New Covenant) and are not the only ones so focused. But, as said, 95% of what I hear out there seems to be a version of Christianity via Judaism.

I agree that the focus on the indwelling Christ is an important recovery.
This focus has two parts:
a) Christ lives in us and not just in heaven - this helps with intimacy and relating to the Lord as one man to another.
b) the Spirit living in us is not "a different spirit" but the Lord Himself as the Spirit - this helps with understanding that the Spirit is not some mysterious or impersonal power that might either work a strange "gold dust" miracle or strike us dead any moment, but truly a Comforter. The name Jesus is truly the name of the Father, the name of the Son, and the name of the Spirit.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I agree that the focus on the indwelling Christ is an important recovery.
This focus has two parts:
a) Christ lives in us and not just in heaven - this helps with intimacy and relating to the Lord as one man to another.
b) the Spirit living in us is not "a different spirit" but the Lord Himself as the Spirit - this helps with understanding that the Spirit is not some mysterious or impersonal power that might either work a strange "gold dust" miracle or strike us dead any moment, but truly a Comforter. The name Jesus is truly the name of the Father, the name of the Son, and the name of the Spirit.

Yes indeed - I do believe that this is the central point of the new covenant! Without the Lord living in and through His believers, it's just a sort of updated Judaism of performance based do's & don'ts.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

The “recovery” doesn’t work without condemning other Christians. It is a pillar or foundation of Lee’s ministry. They are not set apart by demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit or the works of their “ministry”, but instead, by considering themselves over Poor, Poor, Christianity. We saw Drake point to some Beyoncé service or Joel Osteen church that hosted a secular performance group - clearly insulated from reality.

Protestantism/evangelicalism doesn't work without condemning Catholicism. And Catholicism doesn't work without condemning Judaism (see the history).

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Protestantism/evangelicalism doesn't work without condemning Catholicism. And Catholicism doesn't work without condemning Judaism (see the history).

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

abolish - kat-al-oo'-o

From G2596 and G3089; to loosen down (disintegrate), that is, (by implication) to demolish (literally or figuratively); specifically (compare G2646) to halt for the night: - destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.

How would the Gospel not work without condemning Catholicism? What about countries where there is no Catholicism present? Is there no Christianity? I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here Evangelical.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

abolish - kat-al-oo'-o

From G2596 and G3089; to loosen down (disintegrate), that is, (by implication) to demolish (literally or figuratively); specifically (compare G2646) to halt for the night: - destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.

How would the Gospel not work without condemning Catholicism? What about countries where there is no Catholicism present? Is there no Christianity? I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here Evangelical.

Protestantism, as the name implies (to protest), does not exist without condemning (protesting against) Catholicism.

The narrative behind Protestantism is that the Roman Catholic church is not the one true church established by Christ founded on Peter the apostle. That "Catholicism is wrong" is implied every time an evangelical gives someone a gospel tract as opposed to directing them to their nearest Catholic Priest.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Protestantism, as the name implies (to protest), does not exist without condemning (protesting against) Catholicism.
The narrative behind Protestantism is that the Roman Catholic church is not the one true church established by Christ founded on Peter the apostle. That "Catholicism is wrong" is implied every time an evangelical gives someone a gospel tract as opposed to directing them to their nearest Catholic Priest.

I never thought of it like that!

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Protestantism, as the name implies (to protest), does not exist without condemning (protesting against) Catholicism.

I don’t even know where to begin - Bro, I’m worried you’ve got your brain warped through too much Witness Lee. The Gospel of Christ and His Church don’t fit into the paradigm you’ve created. Your paradigm misses the entirety of Scripture and Jesus work on the cross. You’ve simplified a narrative to temporarily prop up your views, but its falling flat (maybe worse).

[Evangelical]

It's no narrative, it's historical fact, that condemnation of Catholicism (and Jews) was a "pillar" of Luther's ministry and later the whole Reformation. Without that condemnation, the Reformation would have been a true reformation within Catholicism rather than what it became as an entity opposed to it. The "sola fide gospel" came from Luther and the Reformation. This gospel is the key point of distinction between Catholics and Protestants. The sola fide gospel would not have eventuated if Luther had not condemned the Catholic church for its gospel of good works. The positive-gospel says "we are saved by faith alone", the negative-gospel says "we are not saved by good works". Sola fide became the rallying cry of the Reformation and Lutheranism in particular, mostly as a counter-argument to the Catholic system of good works.