Christ or faith the Savior?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yes, Judas was a friend, a close companion. When Jesus reclined at the Passover table with the disciples, John leaned against His breast. But who did Jesus lean on? Judas. This is why only John heard the conversation between Jesus and Judas in John 13.21-30.

Ohio, can you please clarify how you reached this conclusion? The only words I see that were directed specifically at Judas were, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

But then the next verse says "But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. " Meaning the whole table heard this and not just John and Judas. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Ohio, can you please clarify how you reached this conclusion? The only words I see that were directed specifically at Judas were, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

But then the next verse says "But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. " Meaning the whole table heard this and not just John and Judas. Maybe I'm missing something.

My understanding is that John 13.25-26 was a private conversation between Jesus and John. Peter was nearby so perhaps he heard more. Most of the disciples were unaware. (vv. 28-29)

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

My understanding is that John 13.25-26 was a private conversation between Jesus and John. Peter was nearby so perhaps he heard more. Most of the disciples were unaware. (vv. 28-29)

I agree that only John understood why Jesus told Judas that, but I was more curious on how you concluded Jesus was leaning on Judas. Maybe in was a typo...?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I agree that only John understood why Jesus told Judas that, but I was more curious on how you concluded Jesus was leaning on Judas. Maybe in was a typo...?

Years ago, while personally being betrayed by a loved one, the thought of Jesus being betrayed by Judas intrigued me. Why would God allow something so cruel? The prophetic in Jn 13.18 got me going, led me to Psalms 41.9 and to 55.12-14. I considered Judas to be one of Jesus' closest friends. (Somewhat contrary to the written Gospels which saw Judas in light of his betrayal.) Judas having "the money" made me consider that he was a valet or steward to the Lord arranging daily accommodations for Him and His entourage. I began to consider Judas not as a student or follower of the Lord, but as a close friend, a personal companion, as prophesied in Psalms.

The Passover supper, contrary to traditional pictures of a long straight table with chairs, had participants reclining as spokes around a central table or hub where the food was placed. According to ancient custom, each would face in the same direction on their left side on pillows with their heads closest to the table and their feet aiming away. (Which would also expedite the foot-washing.)

Jesus reclined just as "one of the guys." John was in front of the Lord, hence he could lean back on the Lord's breast. But who would be behind the Lord? Who could the Lord lean on? The private nature of Jn 13 and the fact that the Lord "dipped the morsel, giving it to Judas" led me to believe that Judas was adjacent and behind the Lord. Except for this unique Passover dinner, which enacted the New Covenant, for Judas to regularly recline by Jesus would facilitate regular discussions about His daily itinerary.

Does that make sense?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Years ago, while personally being betrayed by a loved one, the thought of Jesus being betrayed by Judas intrigued me. Why would God allow something so cruel? The prophetic in Jn 13.18 got me going, led me to Psalms 41.9 and to 55.12-14. I considered Judas to be one of Jesus' closest friends.

If God's plan was for Jesus to die for the sins of the world, then turns out that Judas was the truest of the 12.

Jesus told him to go do it. They must have had a shared plan. And Judas did as he was told.

And he paid the highest price for it. While the other of the 12 ran off.

If the death of Christ was for the sins of the world, then we should all be thanking Judas.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by awareness

If God's plan was for Jesus to die for the sins of the world, then turns out that Judas was the truest of the 12.

Jesus told him to go do it. They must have had a shared plan. And Judas did as he was told.

And he paid the highest price for it. While the other of the 12 ran off.

If the death of Christ was for the sins of the world, then we should all be thanking Judas.

This is actually the premise the gnostic Gospel of Judas presents as well. It would be a good topic to discuss.