Poor, poor Christianity...

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then this thread is a defense of Witness Lee's claim regarding "poor, poor Christianity".

1. Part of this claim is that there are not any other worthy ministries. Other than a few history books and Strong's concordance I was taught in the LRC not to read any other ministry other than Watchman Nee and Witness Lee. Also the Watchman Nee ministry came with the caveat that you had to be concerned about who published it. So far this thread has completely neglected this aspect.

2. If you are going to use Revelation 2-3 for a defense of Witness Lee that seems to open up a very big can of worms.

3. This supports what many of us have been saying on this thread -- your defense of WL is that "hey, at least he isn't like those over there talking about Beyonce, or dancing to Hossana"

Your logic is that if there is any behavior done under the name of Christianity that you disprove of then that is proof of Witness Lee's claim to "poor, poor Christianity". Using that logic if there is any ministry that is of the Lord other than Witness Lee's it proves that his claim there isn't is wrong.

On 1. I was never restricted in anyway as you describe. I am still not.

On 2. Sure. To this forum it is a big can of worms, to me it is examining specifics instead of a generalization. Let the worms fall where they may.

3. No. I anticipated, with the exception of Evangelical, you and everyone else would devote your energy to show how Witness Lee, his coworkers, and the local churches, elders and the so called “LCM” including its members were nothing more than another proof point of poor poor Christianity. I do not need to devote energy making moral equivalency arguments , you all are doing fine at that. Rather we will substantiate one way or the other whether the title statement is valid.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

you all are doing fine at that.

Drake

Thanks bro Drake. Except for a couple of flubs -- Bakker, and swinging sexy lady -- you're doing a fine job too.

But if Bible knowledge is the criteria, I can show you thousands, maybe millions, of examples of poor, poor, Christianity. Just visit your local churches, not the Lee kind, but those near you, and talk to the members about the Bible.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, knowledge of the Bible is not the Lord's criteria. Being generated by the Spirit doesn't require it.

And only the Lord knows. So be careful bro Drake. Not to avoid silly booboos, but pointing your finger and saying poor, poor, Christianity. You might just be pointing at those the Lord doesn't consider poor.

And that also applies to me -- our -- pointing the finger at Local Churchers.

I'd say that it's likely most local churchers have no idea about the poor parts of Nee, Lee, and LSM. They'er simple. They just have a heart for the Lord. Just like so many Lee -- and you doing your darnedest -- called poor, poor.

It just takes a little humility to admit that we're no better than others. The problems with Nee and Lee is that neither had even that much.

Nee kinda had a good reason. He was opposing the invasion into China, of those poor, poor, Western Missionaries. Even tho without them, neither He nor Lee, would be Christians. Proving, even poor, poor, Christianity can produce -- according to you & LSMs bank account -- good results.

Turns out that those you and Lee call poor are very busy spreading Christianity around the world. I agree, after discovering that western missionaries are actually spreading Western culture, that it might be poor, but still, Christianity of all sorts is spreading.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

On 1. I was never restricted in anyway as you describe. I am still not.

I did not say you were "restricted" I said you have neglected this. It is the crucial point, since WL put "poor poor Christianity" in juxtaposition with his "rich, rich ministry".

Originally Posted by Drake

On 2. Sure. To this forum it is a big can of worms, to me it is examining specifics instead of a generalization. Let the worms fall where they may.

OK, I will begin to sprinkle them out.

Originally Posted by Drake

3. No. I anticipated, with the exception of Evangelical, you and everyone else would devote your energy to show how Witness Lee, his coworkers, and the local churches, elders and the so called “LCM” including its members were nothing more than another proof point of poor poor Christianity. I do not need to devote energy making moral equivalency arguments , you all are doing fine at that. Rather we will substantiate one way or the other whether the title statement is valid.

Drake

You just said that this thread is a defense of WL's ministry. As I understand it "compared to idol worshippers, fornicators and Jim Baker his ministry looks pretty good". Is that correct?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I did not say you were "restricted" I said you have neglected this. It is the crucial point, since WL put "poor poor Christianity" in juxtaposition with his "rich, rich ministry".

You just said that this thread is a defense of WL's ministry. As I understand it "compared to idol worshippers, fornicators and Jim Baker his ministry looks pretty good". Is that correct?

I have not juxtaposed anything but i understand why you automatically go there.

What Brother Lee described as “poor poor Christianity “ stands or falls on its own merits. That is the purpose of this thread. You may offer your own examples of poor poor Christianity wherever you think they exist.

Drake

[UntoHim]

Come on Mr. Drake, you're smarter than that. (at least I thought you were)

"Poor, poor Christianity" is a comparative statement. Poor, poor COMPARED TO WHAT? The simple fact is that Witness Lee was comparing the Local Church(es) to other Christian churches, denominations and ministries. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. So compare away my friend....but everything comes right back to the source of your comparison - The teachings and practices established by Witness Lee and the history (good, bad and in between) of the Local Church movement.
-

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

I have not juxtaposed anything but i understand why you automatically go there.

What Brother Lee described as “poor poor Christianity “ stands or falls on its own merits. That is the purpose of this thread. You may offer your own examples of poor poor Christianity wherever you think they exist.

Drake

Then the "rich, rich ministry" also stands or falls on its own merits. You judge a tree by its fruit. All you have proved so far is that there are childish, immature and fleshly Christians.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Then the "rich, rich ministry" also stands or falls on its own merits. You judge a tree by its fruit. All you have proved so far is that there are childish, immature and fleshly Christians.

To what height does LSM's level of hypocrisy rise to when WL appoints his childish, immature and fleshly son Phillip to run his empire in the USA while he moved to Taiwan?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

To what height does LSM's level of hypocrisy rise to when WL appoints his childish, immature and fleshly son Phillip to run his empire in the USA while he moved to Taiwan?

Hey, with what judgement you judge you shall be judged.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Hey, with what judgement you judge you shall be judged.

And it also true for the judger of the judgers.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Then the "rich, rich ministry" also stands or falls on its own merits. You judge a tree by its fruit. All you have proved so far is that there are childish, immature and fleshly Christians.

To be accurate ZNP. I have not proved that because I do not know what everyone in the audience might be thinking. Maybe they are sitting there wanting to leave. Or after the Youtube they stood up and condemned the practice. I don't know, none of us do.

What I have proven is that these identified works, beliefs, and practices are idolatrous, sensual, not according to the Bible, and ... poor. Well, poor poor really.

Drake