Now's good - byHismercy

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by aron

I think there is an "altered state" that comes in when you "empty" thus. It's not entirely foreign to the Christian experience; however in the hands of Lee et al it's main function seems to have been to make you brain-dead and keep you that way.

I feel for you guys coming out of the LC. I understand what you're taking about Aron. I have had first hand experience of the strange unison between the members of this church.

Christ said to "deny yourself", meaning your evil desires but not to "deny thought". There's a difference. The point isn't to stop thinking but to align our thoughts with the Lord's. Paul speaks about holding every thought captive and making it obedient unto Christ and that those that are born of God's spirit are given a new mind, the mind of Christ. If you empty your mind, you're emptying yourself of Christ. When that happens, believe me, something/someone else will fill that void. Think about Luke 11:25.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Christ said to "deny yourself", meaning your evil desires but not to "deny thought". There's a difference. The point isn't to stop thinking but to align our thoughts with the Lord's. Paul speaks about holding every thought captive and making it obedient unto Christ and that those that are born of God's spirit are given a new mind, the mind of Christ. If you empty your mind, you're emptying yourself of Christ. When that happens, believe me, something/someone else will fill that void. Think about Luke 11:25.

Jo S, have you also witnessed Lee's awful exposition of natural affection in action? Lee taught that this "natural" affection damaged believers by "spoiling their offering," imagining that honey in the Old Testament was a type of brotherly love.

Yet Apostle Paul prophecies in II Tim 3.1-5 that Christians in the last days will be "without natural affection." Many of these descriptors have long been evident in those who were LSM's more ardent zealots.

[Jo S]

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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

You guys would know better but it seemed to me like she suddenly recognized I was no longer a part of the program and instantly put this guard up. It's like her natural inclination was to be warm and you know...human but training kicked in to suppress all of that.... Weird and quite frankly sad.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on that.

Jo S, I can't tell if you are a brother or sister by your name, but if a brother then perhaps she suddenly realized that she needed "distance" from a brother. I can't second guess her thoughts.

Let me tell you my own experience. After 15 years in the program, I concluded that the only person totally safe to trust was Witness Lee. I had seen and heard enough by then not to trust any man completely, but was always taught in so many words that Witness Lee was the only completely faithful Christian on the whole earth today. I was not alone in that conclusion.

Now what does that tell you?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Jo S, I can't tell if you are a brother or sister by your name, but if a brother then perhaps she suddenly realized that she needed "distance" from a brother. I can't second guess her thoughts.

Let me tell you my own experience. After 15 years in the program, I concluded that the only person totally safe to trust was Witness Lee. I had seen and heard enough by then not to trust any man completely, but was always taught in so many words that Witness Lee was the only completely faithful Christian on the whole earth today. I was not alone in that conclusion.

Now what does that tell you?

I probably should've been more clear. Things weren't like what I described until after I left the fold. That's why I found her reaction so strange. I thought maybe it had something to do with how LC'er are taught to act toward outsiders in the trainings they attend.

[aron]

Let me restate my point: suppose I was a Bible expositor and over the course of 20-odd years I gave several thousand speeches in front of hundreds of people at a time. And never in al those years did anyone ever say, "Brother Aron, maybe your logic is off, here." Not once.

Now, do you think that this is an environment conducive to the exercise of human thought, or one that rather suppresses thought? I'd say, clearly the latter.

Contrast that to Ravi Zacharias who actually welcomes independent human thought.

The LC version of "good order in the church" is not divine - it is culturally-derived.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by aron

The LC version of "good order in the church" is not divine - it is culturally-derived.

Can't it be both?

For example, the crab cakes and pot stickers are both culturally derived and divine.