Now's good - byHismercy

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

To instigate the series of practical events that led to the Lords accomplishing salvation on the cross.

Why do you ask?

Drake

It seems unrighteous, are you sure you don't want to rethink that? If the Lord is the one who instigated the crucifixion then it doesn't expose man having sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, it exposes man is simply a puppet of the Lord.

Second, you haven't answered the other part of that. We have a promise that no one can take us out of the Lord's hand. So then, what was it that Judas did that in turn caused the Lord to allow Satan to enter into him?

Surely WL has answered this.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It seems unrighteous, are you sure you don't want to rethink that? If the Lord is the one who instigated the crucifixion then it doesn't expose man having sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, it exposes man is simply a puppet of the Lord.

Second, you haven't answered the other part of that. We have a promise that no one can take us out of the Lord's hand. So then, what was it that Judas did that in turn caused the Lord to allow Satan to enter into him?

Surely WL has answered this.

Well, please explain. I’m all ears.

Drake

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

Well, please explain. I’m all ears.

Drake

All ears? You have all you need from the words of Lee, you’re ears are deaf to anything else.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

All ears? You have all you need from the words of Lee, you’re ears are deaf to anything else.

And a hearty Amen to that!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

All ears? You have all you need from the words of Lee, you’re ears are deaf to anything else.

LofT,

Do you have anything to contribute to the actual topic?

Or is your contribution merely personal insults? If you are going to insult at least add something substantive to the topic! If you understand ZNPs point then contribute by clarifying it.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Well, please explain. I’m all ears.

Drake

Saying that Satan entered Judas is not said in a vacuum. Prior to this Jesus said that "one of you is a devil" and that He chose him.

Judas was a devil prior to this moment. He was a liar, and a deceiver. Being omniscient is not the same thing as being a puppet master. Being with Jesus for 3 years, witnessing his ministry, doing works of power in His name, did not change Judas. He never knew the Lord even though the Lord knew him.

It is contrary to God being omnipotent that he needed Judas for His plan of salvation. Instead, I would say that we needed Judas. We are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, so we need the Lord to expose Judas and show us how to deal with Judas.

As to Satan entering into Judas I would align that with Paul's word about the Spirit of disobedience operating in the world.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Saying that Satan entered Judas is not said in a vacuum. Prior to this Jesus said that "one of you is a devil" and that He chose him.

Judas was a devil prior to this moment. He was a liar, and a deceiver. Being omniscient is not the same thing as being a puppet master. Being with Jesus for 3 years, witnessing his ministry, doing works of power in His name, did not change Judas. He never knew the Lord even though the Lord knew him.

It is contrary to God being omnipotent that he needed Judas for His plan of salvation. Instead, I would say that we needed Judas. We are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, so we need the Lord to expose Judas and show us how to deal with Judas.

As to Satan entering into Judas I would align that with Paul's word about the Spirit of disobedience operating in the world.

Well. I see what you are saying ZNP to a large extent but not completely. On this last point above Luke 22:3 says “Satan entered into Judas” that is, Satanas, the adversary of Christ and God, eiserchomai into Judas. In the same way that Jesus eiserchomai the temple in Matthew 21:12.

Also, though we may learn from the incident I don’t really think we have to “deal with Judas”. You probably mean metaphorically yet I miss the point of the metaphor.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Well. I see what you are saying ZNP to a large extent but not completely. On this last point above Luke 22:3 says “Satan entered into Judas” that is, Satanas, the adversary of Christ and God, eiserchomai into Judas. In the same way that Jesus eiserchomai the temple in Matthew 21:12.

Also, though we may learn from the incident I don’t really think we have to “deal with Judas”. You probably mean metaphorically yet I miss the point of the metaphor.

Drake

There are many verses in the NT that discuss identifying and dealing with the false prophet. Judas is a type of the false prophet that will come at the end of the age. Having him as part of the gospel story helps the believers. Now it is easy to see that you can be in the midst of God's move on Earth and even so, one of the twelve is a false prophet.

Whether Satan "enters" Judas as a Spirit, or whether the Spirit of disobedience was "operating within" Judas, what is the difference? I don't really know if that distinction is defined in the Bible.

Now this goes back to one of the other questions I asked. When Judas hanged himself I think we would all agree that was not Satan being crucified on the cross. So if Satan is in Judas, but not in Jesus, why was Satan crucified (or judged) on the cross?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There are many verses in the NT that discuss identifying and dealing with the false prophet. Judas is a type of the false prophet that will come at the end of the age. Having him as part of the gospel story helps the believers. Now it is easy to see that you can be in the midst of God's move on Earth and even so, one of the twelve is a false prophet.

Whether Satan "enters" Judas as a Spirit, or whether the Spirit of disobedience was "operating within" Judas, what is the difference? I don't really know if that distinction is defined in the Bible.

Now this goes back to one of the other questions I asked. When Judas hanged himself I think we would all agree that was not Satan being crucified on the cross. So if Satan is in Judas, but not in Jesus, why was Satan crucified (or judged) on the cross?

ZNP,

Before we go to the crucifixion let’s stay with this point.

According to Ephesians 2:2 the spirit operating in the sons of disobedience is the authority of the air, the aggregate evil power (the ruler (Satan) and his minions) as defined in Ephesians 6:12. That is the distinction between the actual Satan “Satanas” entering a Judas (Luke 22:3) and the spirit “pneuma” that operates in the sons of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2).

Drake

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP,

Before we go to the crucifixion let’s stay with this point.

According to Ephesians 2:2 the spirit operating in the sons of disobedience is the authority of the air, the aggregate evil power (the ruler (Satan) and his minions) as defined in Ephesians 6:12. That is the distinction between the actual Satan “Satanas” entering a Judas (Luke 22:3) and the spirit “pneuma” that operates in the sons of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2).

Drake

You and Evangelical seem quite rely on Eph 2:2 to support your point. Suggest you to check different translations and you will not be so sure about "the spirit operating in the sons of disobedience" being the "ruler".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Whether Satan "enters" Judas as a Spirit, or whether the Spirit of disobedience was "operating within" Judas, what is the difference? I don't really know if that distinction is defined in the Bible.

LSMers constantly attempt to take every discussion down some rabbit hole just to prove they know something more than we do. Meanwhile they miss the chief point of the story -- Judas, a close friend of Jesus, betrayed Him, sending Him to the death of the cross. For this to occur, yes, Satan was used to enter into Judas.

Here is the Father's exceedingly painful arrangement for His Son with Judas, fulfilling a prophetic experience of King David:

For it was not an enemy who insulted me, Then I could have borne it:
Neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; Then I would have hid myself from him.
But it was you, a man whom I treated as my equal— my personal confidant, my close friend!
With whom I once enjoyed sweet fellowship in the house of God, as we walked about among the worshipers. -- Psalm 55.12-14
As for my best friend, the one in whom I trusted, the one who ate my bread, has turned against me. -- Psalm 41.9

The Apostle Paul got the point though. He was not sidetracked by petty discussions. Rather he pointed us to the result -- the New Covenant.

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” -- I C. 11.23