Relationships/Courting

[Evangelical]

We have some posters who are adamant that the elders arrange marriages, supposedly contrary to the person's will, and this is a bad thing as evidenced by a few examples of failed marriages:

Originally Posted by Ohio

When and where have arranged weddings (where young people have their free wills taken from them) been the practice of Bible believing Christians in evangelical churches?

Originally Posted by JJ

Anyone who denies that marriages arranged by the elders is not a common practice in the LC is lying. I witnessed or was told about them by those whose marriages were arranged many times from 1985-2015.

Then we have others who clarify that the elders do not literally force people into marriage:

Originally Posted by Freedom

In the LC-style arranged marriages, it might not be something that is literally 'forced' on anyone, but the pressure is enough so that people will cave to what the elders are 'suggesting'.

There is enough diversity of opinion here to suggest that it is not true that "young people have their free wills taken from them". I think the reaction to "arranged" marriages in the LC is a case of modern day culture clashing with godly wisdom found in the Bible. It seems that people just want to blame the elders, the church, their parents for failed relationships that is ultimately their own responsibility. If two people make their vows before God at the altar and don't mean them or intend to follow through then they cannot blame the elders or the church.

If people think that because of some failures that we should throw away godly wisdom they are wrong. The bible overwhelmingly supports the idea of elderly counselors. This is particularly important in relationships given that certain "love chemicals" as nature intended can confuse rational decision making.

Some biblical examples are:

Prov 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.

Prov 19:20 Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future.

Prov 28:26 Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.

1 Kings 12:6 Then King Rehoboam took counsel with the old men, who had stood before Solomon his father while he was yet alive, saying, “How do you advise me to answer this people?”

Prov 4:13 Keep hold of instruction; do not let go; guard her, for she is your life.

2 Samuel 17:4 And the advice seemed right in the eyes of Absalom and all the elders of Israel.

Job 12:12 Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days.

Isaac and Rebekah's marriage was arranged by his father.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

We have some posters who are adamant that the elders arrange marriages, supposedly contrary to the person's will, and this is a bad thing as evidenced by a few examples of failed marriages:

Spin it however you want EV. There is no comparison between what I have seen regarding how deeply LC elders regularly get involved in people’s marriages, and the pressure and power they exert and wield versus how most elders or pastors outside the LC do it. Good verses by the way. It is good to seek counsel from wise elders, including regarding marriage. Lording it over people and being busybodies in others business are another matter, and what I take issue with.

Issac and Rebekah’s marriage is an Old Testament type of Christ’s marriage to the church being arranged by God the Father, not a prescription for church elders’ New Testament practice. Show me some New Testament support for this practice you deny with one breath then support with the next.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Prov 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety..

". . in an abundance of counselors. ."?

How does this jibe with "one trumpet"?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by aron

". . in an abundance of counselors. ."?

How does this jibe with "one trumpet"?

Great point, Aron.

[aron]

Originally Posted by JJ

Great point, Aron.

The LC is okay with the idea of many counselors, as long as they're all named "Witness Lee". I guess that's why he had to write so many books - so there'd be no shortage of opinions!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Some biblical examples are: Prov 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety. Job 12:12 Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days.

Sorry to say, but two of the primary criteria for all of today's LC elders are not listed in the Bible -- zeal and loyalty to Lee's ministry.

I have seen and read countless stories during the last 40 years of real elders who were replaced because they attempted to place the Bible and their church above the demands of headquarters.

And you want us to believe that these "loyal" elders have the best interests of their young people in mind when it comes to marriage and their future? What they're not willing to admit is all the failed arranged marriages over the years. They will boast in all their successes, but blame others for all their failures.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry to say, but two of the primary criteria for all of today's LC elders are not listed in the Bible -- zeal and loyalty to Lee's ministry.

For years the message was come to the meetings and the meetings will take care of.....(insert marriage or family). Some brothers took that literally. When marriages fail, elders will look at the brother why the marriage failed.
It's not the system. It's not "come to the meetings and the meetings will take care of your marriage or family". In a sense the elders are right in the husband being accountable, but as far as allowing damaging words to be uttered in the meetings such as that, elders come across as hirelings and not shepherds.