What is the boundary of the Local Church?

[Steel]

When I read the title of this thread — "What is the boundary of the Local Church" — my thought was that it would be a thread discussing the idea of one church per city as presented in Living Stream Ministry publications... And that is the context my following speaking will be related to.

The first time I heard about the "...one church per city..." thought was just after I started meeting with the local church in Miami... And my first response to it was "Wonderful, this is how it should be."

And this wasn't because I had come to hold to anything Witness Lee or Watchman Nee or LSM... It was because I had just spent three years working through a project called OneAmen, which had as the thought behind it, a platform on and through which all believers in Christ Jesus could come together outside of the denominations/specifc "churches" they were associated with.

"WWJD" . . . Remember that acronym that was popular back in the '90s... "What would Jesus do?" . . . Well... I asked that question regarding this scripture... John 17:21... "That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." . . . And I asked it because from my POV there was nothing "...one..." about the church I was seeing around me.

The answer I got was this... 2nd Corinthians 1:20... "For as many promises of God as there are, in Him is the Yes; therefore also through Him is the Amen to God, for glory through us to God."

This told me that it's all about the Son... All about Christ Jesus... And He is just One... It's not about doctrines, or ministries, or denominations, or anything else... It's only about the Lord Jesus... And if the body is to be one body... Then the members of the body need to realize this reality... That is is all about, and only about, Jesus.

There is only... one... Amen... To God's calling/desire... And anything outside of this one Amen is not according to God's calling/desire.

Now when I came to see this truth regarding the one body of Christ, I had no idea about the "...ground of the church..." or "...one church per city..." . . . I just knew that what I was seeing when I looked at the body of Christ around me wasn't aligning with what I had come to know about the matter after considering scripture before the Lord.

And then the Lord removed my wife and myself from meeting with believers in what I'd later come to see as Christianity... And brought us to the local church meeting in Miami.

And no... I didn't for a moment think I'd found the oneness of God's body being expressed on this earth... But what I realized is that the Lord had revealed another part of the matter of the oneness of the body that I had been seeking Him on.

Before you can truly enter into something you need to first see it... There is just no way to truly enter into something without first seeing it... And what I came to see as I met with the local church, and read the ministry of LSM, help me see a little more about the matter of the oneness of the body of Christ... Something that the ministry publications referred to as "...the ground of the church..." and the thought of "...one church per city...".

And what is "wrong" with the thought of "...one church per city..."?

Isn't that what the reality of being in Christ actually is, for those of us who live in a city?

In the Lord's eyes... How many churches are there in a city?

One, right... And if so... How many churches should we see, as believers in Him, when we look at a city?

Again... Just one.

Not two... Not three... Not four... Only one.

"...I will build My church..."

And yet... Here we are... Three "churches" right here on my quarter mile of street where I live... And one more half a mile away... And four more maybe one mile away... Eight "churches" within one mile of where I live... And none having anything to do with the others.

Lord Jesus... Help us. . . . Is this what you want Lord?

No... It isn't. . . . He certainly allows it... But it's not what He wants... Not according to scripture... "That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me."

"...that the world may believe that You have sent Me."

It doesn't say "...that believers may believe that You sent Me." . . . It says "...the world..." . . . But the world looks at Christianity and doesn't see this oneness... Every day I participate on online forums in which some claimed atheist states that there is so much division between believers... And they are correct, there is.

Why do we believers allow this to take place? . . . Why don't we care for the oness of the Lord in His church?

I have come to see that this is where the rubber hits the road regarding the matters of "...the ground of the church..." and "...one church per city..."... It's about how much we care for the oneness of the Lord in His church.

You want to know what the "...boundary of the local church..." is, saints... It's the measure of grace that God has given you to care for the oneness of the body of Christ... And the capacity you have through this measure of grace God has given you to care for the oneness of the body of Christ... And finally... It is the environment into which the measure of God's grace has brought you so that you can express this care for the oneness of the body of Christ in a living/practical way.

In new testament the word translated as "city" defines a particular geographic area related to a particular set of inhabitants within that geographic area. And it's somewhat similar in the old testament also.

It's not rocket science... How can you care for the oneness of the body of Christ in relation to those who live a hundred miles from you... Or even fifty miles from you... On a monthly basis maybe... But weekly... Daily... Hourly... Not so much.

This is what I clearly see in scripture as a pattern for us to follow... The oneness of the Lord's church is seen locally, then regionally, then universally... In and through the caring of the saints for this oneness... First locally, then regionally, then universally.

And why a "...city..." for the local boundary of this caring? . . . It's what the apostles set as a pattern for us... And our fellowship is with the apostles... Whose fellowship is with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3).

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Steel

What is "wrong" with the thought of "...one church per city..."?

Yes, great question.

In the LRC I met in Houston (200), Irving (100), Odessa (<100), NYC (300).

Even if you considered yourself "one with all the Christians" in the city you couldn't possibly think that you were comprehensively one with them. There were obviously many, many meetings going on in the city of genuine Christians.

So then the question becomes "Is one church in one city = all the Christians have to meet with us?" That is where the error comes in. No, all the Christians have to meet with Jesus, that is the only requirement.

If "one church one city" means that only our elders are the "authority" in the church here then that is the error.

If "one church one city" means that every other Lord's table meeting in this city is in division and sin, then that is the error.

[Steel]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, great question.

In the LRC I met in Houston (200), Irving (100), Odessa (<100), NYC (300).

While you were meeting with these members of the body of Christ... Were you caring for all members of His body in those cities?

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Even if you considered yourself "one with all the Christians" in the city you couldn't possibly think that you were comprehensively one with them. There were obviously many, many meetings going on in the city of genuine Christians.

What's impossible for man, isn't for God.

I don't need to consider myself one with all the Christians"... I only need to believe that I am one with Christ... In Whom, and out of Whom comes His body.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then the question becomes "Is one church in one city = all the Christians have to meet with us?" That is where the error comes in. No, all the Christians have to meet with Jesus, that is the only requirement.

Actually, that's not the question/consideration.

According to scripture, one church in one city is the already accomplished/established reality... What needs to be worked out is the entering of believers within the city into this already accomplished/established reality.

And no... Believers don't just "...meet with Jesus..." . . . We meet in Him and through Him... And unto Him.

And if a believer doesn't see and enter into this reality... They are outside of Christ... Even as we might claim otherwise.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If "one church one city" means that only our elders are the "authority" in the church here then that is the error.

Scripture tells us that Christ alone is the Head... And as the Head, He alone is the authority, both over, and within His one church.

If believers are unable to submit ourselves to this reality of Christ being our Head... Then how can there ever be a proper expression of Christ in anything that we express... Including the matter of eldership.

Maybe we can take a look at how God arranged things when Moses had to manage the couple million Israelites he was caring for.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If "one church one city" means that every other Lord's table meeting in this city is in division and sin, then that is the error.

Division doesn't come out of works... Division comes out of not caring for what God cares for.

Works simply expresses what a believer cares for.

How can we have the oneness of Christ expressed in and through the body of Christ if the body of Christ doesn't care about His oneness?

Caring for the oneness of the body of Christ... That's the ground we should stand on... And when we do... The reality of this is what is then expressed... In all that we are and do.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Steel

While you were meeting with these members of the body of Christ... Were you caring for all members of His body in those cities?

That would require a very long and detailed response not appropriate for this thread, however if you open a new thread I would be happy to contribute.

Originally Posted by Steel

How can we have the oneness of Christ expressed in and through the body of Christ if the body of Christ doesn't care about His oneness?

I think this is something that grows as you mature in the Lord. However, the boundary is a key issue. WL and WN were correct to identify the importance of only one ground on which the Temple can be built.

This ground is the same place Abraham offered up his son in a figure. It indicates we have to be absolute for the Lord, we are a burnt offering, we must take the way of the cross, a path we can only walk by faith.

It is also the same ground purchased by David as a Peace offering to make up for his arrogance in numbering the children of Israel contrary to the Law. If you want to keep the oneness you will have sins, offenses, even sins of ignorance. You need to also be willing to pay the price to make peace. [That plague was certainly a result of the census that David authorized. At that time you had an agricultural society that was rural. When you raise cows, chickens, horses, sheep, goats, etc you will develop diseases like Mumps and Measles. If you get these as a child you will develop immunity, but if you get them as an adult you will get sick and die. This does not apply to those who come to Jerusalem to the feast because they would not come if they were sick or infirm. But a census taker would have gone in and out of homes where the sick, infirm, children and elderly would be. They would transmit diseases from one part of Israel to another. The law was very clear, the only way to take a census is to have each family give their local levite an offering in copper coins, the tally of the offering would give you a census. Copper is very good at not spreading disease.]

Originally Posted by Steel

Caring for the oneness of the body of Christ... That's the ground we should stand on... And when we do... The reality of this is what is then expressed... In all that we are and do.

Yes, my point in this thread is that this is what Matt 18 is talking about. It begins with "turning" from wanting to be "greatest" to "becoming like a small child". Our pride, arrogance and biases are a major cause of division. The second thing is to be very sensitive to the smallest saint being offended. If every saint is the "Body" then our body is covered with nerve endings to detect an attack. If a wolf is going to attack the sheep they'll attack the weakest members on the edge of the flock. Those saints will be your earliest indication of a problem. Also, if a saint stops meeting you need to seek out and find the lost sheep. Had we done this we would have discovered the truth of the Sister's rebellion and many other crimes committed by "wolves in sheep's clothing". Then it talks about resolving offences and with the strongest possible emphasis tells us to exhibit mercy towards one another.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Steel

And what is "wrong" with the thought of "...one church per city..."?

There is only one church per city because there is only one body of Christ.

It is only the fallen, natural man who looks at all of God's children and sees differences. Are not all churches golden lampstands, indistinguishable from one another?

It was W. Lee who decided that only his LC's are legitimate, and only the elders he appointed are legitimate, and only his printing presses are legitimate, and only his seminaries are legitimate, and divided his followers from the rest of the body of Christ.

[Steel]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There is only one church per city because there is only one body of Christ.

Amen... And yet... That's not what folks see when they look at us, is it.

Is that their fault... Our fault... The Lord's fault... Or no one's fault?

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is only the fallen, natural man who looks at all of God's children and sees differences.

Really? . . . So God doesn't see differences between His children? . . . So God doesn't know each of His children individually, and even created us individually?

What are we... Just clones?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are not all churches golden lampstands, indistinguishable from one another?

By "...all churches..." I'm going to conclude that you mean all expressions of God's one church that is in Christ Jesus... And in this context... Yes... All are golden lampstands, indistinguishable from one another.

But... Do all members of these "...golden lampstands, indistinguishable from one another..." expressions of God's one church... See this reality... And enter into this reality... And express this reality?

Tell me, Ohio... If the Lord was to come in and remove a golden lampstand from among a group of believers... What will happen to these believers?

Originally Posted by Ohio

It was W. Lee who decided that only his LC's are legitimate, and only the elders he appointed are legitimate, and only his printing presses are legitimate, and only his seminaries are legitimate, and divided his followers from the rest of the body of Christ.

Really... So the Pope is all on-board with the oneness of the body that is in Christ Jesus... And the head honchos of the various protestant religious institutions... Are they all on-board with the oneness of the body that is in Christ Jesus?

I'm asking because from your above speaking it's sounding like everything was just peachy keen regarding all believers being on-board with the oneness of the body that is in Christ Jesus before Witness Lee came and messed things up.