The Church in Sardis prefigures the Protestant Reformation?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What became Christless was the church organizations that resulted from the Reformation and satisfy Rev 3:20a. These church organizations became affiliated with the governments of the time. Today, many of these state-churches support gay marriage and such. Christless fits them well. Even though God led them out of the Roman Catholic church, they became dead themselves.

Evangelical. What bothers me most is the overgeneralization argument that Witness Lee made such radical and bias statements that he didn't name specific what those in the reformed churches are that he was referring to. You are implying reformed Christians who are in mainline Protestantism. There are mainline "reformed" institutional churches that are terrible and don't teach correct doctrine. You have to make the distinction that there are many, many churches out there that are reformed in theology and yet alive.

Yet LCers can't determine these distinctions instead believing that all those in the reformed faith are Christless and dead.

In the reformed churches there is still the teaching of Balaam, the teaching of the Nicolaitans, and even to some extent the teaching of Jezebel. (General Sketch of the New Testament in the Light of Christ and the Church, A - Part 4: Revelation, Chapter 3, Section 3)

Evangelical:

For this reason God used the inner life mystics such as Madame Guyon and Brother Lawrence, Catholics, to show the Protestants the way.

Mysticism is not the experience of a Christian.

Evangelical:

It is referring to the church organization not the individuals within that church.

LCers sometimes equate both. In reality, LCers are bashing Christians in Christianity! One of the reasons why I left LCM because of the using prophesying meetings as a platform to put down Christians not meeting with the Local Churches is equally divisive and offensive.

Neither the Catholic Church, the denominations, nor the divisive and confusing free groups can do any preparation of the Bride. (Life-Study of Revelation, Chapter 51, Section 2)

Evangelical:

As believers, Piper and Washer would be alive in Christ.

What about the other men?
R.C Sproul
John Macarthur
Voddie Baucham
James White
Alistair Begg
Todd Friel
Jeff Durbin
Steven Lawson

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Evangelical. What bothers me most is the overgeneralization argument that Witness Lee made such radical and bias statements that he didn't name specific what those in the reformed churches are that he was referring to. You are implying reformed Christians who are in mainline Protestantism. There are mainline "reformed" institutional churches that are terrible and don't teach correct doctrine. You have to make the distinction that there are many, many churches out there that are reformed in theology and yet alive.

Yet LCers can't determine these distinctions instead believing that all those in the reformed faith are Christless and dead.

Generally Reformed churches are more about theology than the person of Christ. For example, many believe the gifts of the Spirit ceased when the bible was written etc. Many don't acknowledge the person of the Spirit at all.

Mysticism is not the experience of a Christian.

What experience are you referring to then? The apostles, Peter and Paul, were mystics, having dreams, visions and trances.

What about the other men?
R.C Sproul
John Macarthur
Voddie Baucham
James White
Alistair Begg
Todd Friel
Jeff Durbin
Steven Lawson

Every believer has Christ and is going to heaven don't worry about that. Christless does not mean unsaved.

[Kevin]

It's not up to LC to authoritatively determine who's alive or not. Let scripture show who's living and dead.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Generally Reformed churches are more about theology than the person of Christ.

Many highly exalted Christ for the glory of God. Solus Christus! Think about the Puritans. I didn't come to embrace reformed theology just to be large-headed, off-balance, callous, hard and proud, but to see and savor the glory of God above all! That's what drove me into it. God-centered. But for the LC, they keep on saying, "We don't care for doctrines." Therefore, there is no need to diligently study the Word of God.

For example, many believe the gifts of the Spirit ceased when the bible was written etc. Many don't acknowledge the person of the Spirit at all.

Most cessationists believe that God can and still does perform miracles today, but not through men and not some gibberish vain talking.

Every believer has Christ and is going to heaven don't worry about that. Christless does not mean unsaved.

But they will take a summer class in dispensational discipline for not standing on the ground of oneness.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not up to LC to authoritatively determine who's alive or not. Let scripture show who's living and dead.



Many highly exalted Christ for the glory of God. Solus Christus! Think about the Puritans. I didn't come to embrace reformed theology just to be large-headed, off-balance, callous, hard and proud, but to see and savor the glory of God above all! That's what drove me into it. God-centered. But for the LC, they keep on saying, "We don't care for doctrines." Therefore, there is no need to diligently study the Word of God.



Most cessationists believe that God can and still does perform miracles today, but not through men and not some gibberish vain talking.


But they will take a summer class in dispensational discipline for not standing on the ground of oneness.

Not caring for doctrines means not caring for them more than life. A classical reformer would likely go on and on about 5 point Calvinism..or osas and neglect the life of the Body.

In this way the Reformers became just like the Catholics by holding onto teachings and traditions.

One thing you can't deny because its a fact of history is that the Reformation became political and the Reformed denominations existing today are from that political upheavel. So to say they were or are Christ alone is incorrect.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Not caring for doctrines means not caring for them more than life. A classical reformer would likely go on and on about 5 point Calvinism..or osas and neglect the life of the Body.

In this way the Reformers became just like the Catholics by holding onto teachings and traditions.

How long will the LC repent of their sins? Can the LC leadership say, "We were wrong"?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

How long will the LC repent of their sins? Can the LC leadership say, "We were wrong"?

If the LC treats the protestant churches like the protestants treated Catholics then how long?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If the LC treats the protestant churches like the protestants treated Catholics then how long?

I'm afraid what we've got today is protestants gone wild ; protestants of protestants.

Lee was right, I thought back then. I had had enough of Christianity by the time I ran into the local church. I grew up in it, and eventually I saw, in short, that they had no Spirit ... or as Lee said, "Christless."

Now I've come to see that Lee was just another Protestant ; a super Protestant in fact. But in the end just another protestant in a long list of protestants ... and along the way Witness Lee and his movement will suffer the blows of other Protestants. And Protestantism will go on like nothing happened ... protesting everyone but themselves.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If the LC treats the protestant churches like the protestants treated Catholics then how long?

The reformation had little to do with how one group of Christians "treated" each other, rather Luther, Zwingli et al were "protesting" against so many unbiblical teachings and practices. Ostensibly, this is the basis of Watchman Nee's Local Church Movement. It is now painfully obvious that Witness Lee took Nee''s protesting and created his own religion/sect with his own brand of make-it-up-as-you-go-along set of teachings and practices.

Make no mistake, the Local Church's deplorable treatment and attitude towards their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ is a direct result of the teachings, practices and attitude passed on from the person and work of Witness Lee.
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