What should I be looking for in a church?

[Kevin]

I have much interested with the conservative Reformed churches. I do aware the mainline Presbyterian Church that allows homosexuality. I'm really upset with the LC elders and co-workers here for allowing a millionaire brother who had annullement to force a young sister to marry him in her twenties. It's because of money matters and wanting to have a fancy meeting hall! They kicked out a co-worker just for accepting him in our region. There are lot of things have gone beyond the lines. And I fear that I know what the implications are, if I announce to leave publicly, I would be labeled as an opposer. I would lose my relationship with my relatives and my grandma who supported me for college. Please pray for me.

[Kevin]

My mom got stumbled for calling her "junk" by an elder for not doing her job well as a bookroom in charge. My step dad also got stumbled about one elder that he was falsely accused about few things because of that elder's jealously and envy. Those elders never reconciled to my parents. They just don't mind at all. They all care for those saints who shows loyalty to them.

[Kevin]

I'm starting reading the ESV Bible. I'm wanting to order two books called Desiring God and The Pleasures of God by John Piper. But it's kinda expensive to afford it. Can somebody would be so kind order me those books. Anyways, I always follow his website 'desiringgod.org'

[aron]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Those elders never reconciled to my parents. They just don't mind at all. They all care for those saints who shows loyalty to them.

Kevin, in Chinese culture, apologizing is to lose face. But the problem isn't Chinese culture, but that Witness Lee taught that it didn't exist in the LC. So it began to increasingly dominate LC affairs, but nobody could address it.

So the only "oneness" in the LC was maintained by abject servility to leaders. I bet those elders had the same problems that your parents had with them. It is an entirely human system of 'guanxi networks', of reciprocal obligations. Violate this network, and you will not be forgiven.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Kevin

. I would lose my relationship with my relatives and my grandma who supported me for college.

Guanxi networks. Once you see them for what they are, they lose their power over you.

[Bradley]

Originally Posted by aron

Guanxi networks. Once you see them for what they are, they lose their power over you.

I hate that guanxi stuff, so annoying. Now that you mention it, yeah the church was rife with it - "oh, your new one wants to get a job in this company? Brother so and so is the CEO, we can have morning revival together with him tomorrow to discuss getting him a position there to help shepherd him..."

Some of it seemed just plain immoral to me, like I shouldn't have anything to do with certain things and am totally unqualified but I'm 'in' because I'm in the church. But my Chinese ex wife felt it was perfectly acceptable and just the way things work.

[OBW]

I see a lot of advice concerning this writer or that preacher/writer. But unless you happen to live in the right place, you are going to get some common preacher who probably went to one of a number of different seminaries or Bible schools. And they are going to be reading and picking from many sources, both recent and past (even long past). If they are not, I would always be wary that you are headed into another closed system.

The point is to get connected with other Christians. To hear the word proclaimed regularly. To join in corporate worship. That is generally easier when you do it with people you get to know at least a little. People that you see fairly regularly. So whether you "become a member" or just attend regularly, you are joining along with them on the Christian journey.

Despite things you have seen from me in other threads, I would steer you toward more evangelical churches. Reformed, Baptist, Bible churches, so many of the more recent (and loose) affiliations. Too many to know them all or name them. But good options. And if your leaning is toward the other end of the spectrum, I would not dissuade you as long as you are preparing to join in the liturgy as reminding you week after week of the truth of Jesus and of our part in his continued life on earth. I do not think that the RCC is unchristian, but it is also difficult to suggest that as an option.

You should be looking for a church that is there for your growth and for the propagation of the Gospel, whether in missionary ways or other acts of service in your community. Take note of their stance toward others who are not of their flock. And if you see anything that you think is truly of serious error, you might want to reconsider. But I will not lead you as to what kinds of things those might be. I hope that if it is important that it will be clear to you. Otherwise, I pray for your ability to practice generality.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by OBW

I would steer you toward more evangelical churches. generality.

I'm trying to check up with Christ Commission Fellowship (CCF). CCF is conservative Evangelical but does not identify itself as either Reformed nor Arminian to avoid unnecessary identification with a myriad of traditions and practices from mainline protestant denominations. CCF is Trinitarian; believes in the full inspiration, inerrancy, and supreme authority of the 66 books that comprise the Holy Scriptures; and salvation by grace through faith in Jesus alone, based on His divinity and humanity and His finished work on the cross. Beats me with this one. I haven't yet made my full decision because I have just recently out the LC, wondering where to start my life.

I sent an email to Got Questions Ministries about this Evangelical church.

Question 530918: Is Christ Commission Fellowship (CCF) biblically a solid church? This is their official website. http://www.ccf.org.ph/

Answered by: Steve

Answer:
CCF is a biblically sound church. I have never had the opportunity to attend their services but have seen their television show. I did look at the website and read their core values and found nothing wrong with their ministry. They believe Jesus is the Son of God, was born of a virgin, died on the cross and rose from the dead three days later and is alive today.

I can find nothing wrong with any of their teachings on television or on their website.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm trying to check up with Christ Commission Fellowship (CCF). CCF is conservative Evangelical but does not identify itself as either Reformed nor Arminian to avoid unnecessary identification with a myriad of traditions and practices from mainline protestant denominations. CCF is Trinitarian; believes in the full inspiration, inerrancy, and supreme authority of the 66 books that comprise the Holy Scriptures; and salvation by grace through faith in Jesus alone, based on His divinity and humanity and His finished work on the cross. Beats me with this one. I haven't yet made my full decision because I have just recently out the LC, wondering where to start my life.

I sent an email to Got Questions Ministries about this Evangelical church.

Sounds pretty much like a Bible church other than the fact that most (all?) of them are probably Calvinist. But they don't agree on everything. The only absolutely similar thing is the name. So it doesn't mean much.

As for the kind of doctrinal statement that you semi-quoted, it seem typical. And while everywhere that I have been since the LRC holds to the same general statements, I sort of wish they would make their doctrinal statement a little less dogmatic. Mostly about the whole "inerrancy" thing. Not because I think there are errors in the Bible, but because "inerrancy" so often doesn't really mean that. More like it means "we believe that the Bible — all 66 books — support our positions on all the other things we believe that are not stated in this short document. And it means that every bit of inspiration that I receive out of 5 words in a row is inspired by God. And it means that my interpretation of unclear passages is the correct one, supported by the "inerrant" Bible.

Almost nothing that needs that kind of inerrancy is that important for your Christian life. Seems more like a trump card for a doctrinal debate than what the Bible said about itself — profitable for teaching, reproof, and instruction in righteousness.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm really upset with the LC elders and co-workers here for allowing a millionaire brother who had annullement to force a young sister to marry him in her twenties. It's because of money matters and wanting to have a fancy meeting hall! They kicked out a co-worker just for accepting him in our region. There are lot of things have gone beyond the lines. And I fear that I know what the implications are, if I announce to leave publicly, I would be labeled as an opposer. I would lose my relationship with my relatives and my grandma who supported me for college. Please pray for me.

I would not go to this meeting without bringing witnesses. If you are the only one there then they can completely control how you are depicted. Bring at least two or three witnesses. This would be a very good reason for why you need to postpone because this time is not convenient for two or three of those willing to come with you. Also if you are concerned about your grandmother then perhaps she could be one of those witnesses there.

You say the purpose of the meeting is to ask you to repent for your doctrinal views. I am not aware of the public statements that you have made that they are asking you to recant.

Do not bring up their alleged sins unless you have evidence you wish to bring to their attention and you know of at least one more witness that will corroborate your testimony. For example the key testimony in this account of the millionaire brother forcing the sister against her will is this sister's testimony. If she is not going to corroborate this then this story alone would be justification for some form of discipline.

I am also confused -- you say you have left the movement yet they are going to quarantine you if you don't recant. What is it that you have said publicly that you need to recant?

[Drake]

-1

ZNP) "I am also confused -- you say you have left the movement yet they are going to quarantine you if you don't recant. What is it that you have said publicly that you need to recant?"

I had the same question. Frankly, there are several inconsistencies with the testimony.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

ZNP) "I am also confused -- you say you have left the movement yet they are going to quarantine you if you don't recant. What is it that you have said publicly that you need to recant?"

I had the same question. Frankly, there are several inconsistencies with the testimony.

LOCAL CHURCH QUARANTINE: Public shaming which discredits and destroys Kevin's reputation within their system in order to punish this so-called "heretic, rebel, leper" and isolate him from his own friends and family still within the LC system. Normally the victim of the quarantine is not present, and is not able to defend himself. The whole sham is little more than a Kangaroo Court.

LC Quarantine is independent of whether or not Kevin still meets in the LC's, but, of course, once Kevin is officially quarantined, he will not be permitted to meet.

Since Drake has seen a number of these quarantines over the years, his question and comment are remarkably disingenuous.