Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery aka The One Publication

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Drake

Most of the young people I know have not left and they don't exhibit that attitude.

Drake

Even LC leaders say that 50%+ leave. And from my observation, the number is much higher.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Even LC leaders say that 50%+ leave. And from my observation, the number is much higher.

In fairness, the dropout rate across the board in all churches is high. I think the main problem is we don't encourage kids to develop their own faith. We indoctrinate them, put them on cruise control and avoid the tough questions.

I just teach my boys that God is real, he wants to be close to them and that they can trust him. I encourage good behavior, of course, but I don't preach to them. I think if they learn to love and trust God like David did, they have a good chance. "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6.

However, because of the LCM's grand opinion of themselves and their methods they are more in the hot seat than others on this. Talk is cheap. It's all about the fruit.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

In fairness, the dropout rate across the board in all churches is high. I think the main problem is we don't encourage kids to develop their own faith. We indoctrinate them, put them on cruise control and avoid the tough questions.

I just teach my boys that God is real, he wants to be close to them and that they can trust him. I encourage good behavior, of course, but I don't preach to them. I think if they learn to love and trust God like David did, they have a good chance. "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6.

However, because of the LCM's grand opinion of themselves and their methods they are more in the hot seat than others on this. Talk is cheap. It's all about the fruit.

In my neck of the woods it often seemed like hotheads were always promoted and rarely were held accountable. When my son thinks back on the LC experience, he remembers one event at a church camp that stood out. One of the boys was being a pain while playing unsupervised basketball, so he made up a story, told his dad, and blamed my son. Dad shows up and strangled my son screaming at him.

Hothead never asked the other boys what was happening in the game. Hothead never cared to reconcile or moderate play, introducing his son back into the game. All the other church kids were just shocked that junior had successfully deceived his father. I was not at the camp, but I assume that hothead had to leave "the fellowship" in order to intervene ...

Nothing was really learned there about relationships. I found out months later. Hothead was close friends with the leading elder, so there was no available recourse, and I know how they think, "kids need to learn a lesson ..."

And the "lessons" they learned?

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Igzy

In fairness, the dropout rate across the board in all churches is high. I think the main problem is we don't encourage kids to develop their own faith. We indoctrinate them, put them on cruise control and avoid the tough questions.

I just teach my boys that God is real, he wants to be close to them and that they can trust him. I encourage good behavior, of course, but I don't preach to them. I think if they learn to love and trust God like David did, they have a good chance. "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6.

However, because of the LCM's grand opinion of themselves and their methods they are more in the hot seat than others on this. Talk is cheap. It's all about the fruit.

The numbers may be comparable, I'm not sure--although I do think the number that leaves the LC is closer to 90%. I've seen FTTA grads snap and give up the whole thing, even to become atheists. And that is something especially troubling to me--"church-kids" who become disillusioned often seem to have be so messed up by it that they are unable to get spiritual help anywhere after that.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

And that is something especially troubling to me--"church-kids" who become disillusioned often seem to have be so messed up by it that they are unable to get spiritual help anywhere after that.

This is the dark side of declaring "Christianity" as "fallen, divided Babylon." If people don't think there is anything really positive there they can't get help there. They get stuck in limbo. Some never break out of it.

There will be an accounting for all these damaged people. Somebody will be held accountable. Lord help us all.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This is the dark side of declaring "Christianity" as "fallen, divided Babylon." If people don't think there is anything really positive there they can't get help there. They get stuck in limbo. Some never break out of it.

There will be an accounting for all these damaged people. Somebody will be held accountable. Lord help us all.

It is a thought provoking discussion and there could be several possible reasons.

I don't agree with generalizations but I don't dismiss the anecdotal out of hand either. I have some of my own, for instance, there is a higher dropout rate in America that I don't see in other places. Second and third generation often do not have the life changing experiences that brought their parents or grandparents into the Lords Recovery and still keeps them. The restrictions placed on the children in terms of television, dances, parties, and other activities considered worldly created resentment. Young people today have the lure of the world and ready made accommodation to sin right at their fingertips that we never had to deal with. There were individual situations like Ohio mentions.

I join Igzy in this sincere plea: Lord help us and the young people.

Drake

[Freedom]

I was born and raised in the LC, and as such, I got to experience some of the disconnect in discussion first hand. For example, my family was completely anti-Christmas, even to an extreme. So much so that on days where there were holiday related activities, we were pulled from school. As a kid, I obviously had no idea what was going on, other than the stark realization that I was different than everyone else. Moreover the whole attitude felt punitive. Us kids didn't even know what Christmas was, yet we kids got 'punished' for it in the sense of the social isolation. I've since moved on from the resentment, since what happened is over and done. The reason I bring this up ,however, is to illustrate just what happens when things are imposed as has been discussed.

Getting back to the subject of LSM publications, I believe that there is anecdotal value to this type of discussion. When WL started out, I think that people were drawn to him because he was perceived to be a gifted Bible teacher. Thus his ministry and publications had some sort of expository value to people who felt it helped them to know the Bible better. Somewhere along the way, a view developed that WL's ministry encompassed THE truth that everyone needed to be 'constituted' with. This was certainly my view of his ministry, and the view that was continually instilled in me. Notice that I'm not saying that his ministry didn't have any potential benefit. It's just the fact that the entire approach was wrong. Along with anyone else, if we were going to be encouraged to read WL's ministry, it should have been with a personal goal to be able to know and understand the Bible better. That was never the goal. The goal was to be 'constituted' with his ministry.

The end result is members, even young members, who can recite spiritual jargon but really have no clue what they are talking about. Maybe a lot of it is just harmless, I'm not out to judge, but I do see it all the time on places like Facebook. The more concerning issue, however, is what happens when all these people run into problems that they're not ready to deal with, problems that reciting spiritual jargon can't solve. Again, I'm not saying that WL's ministry itself is the dead end, it's how it is being utilized and promoted. It is my belief that the current LC approach to WL's ministry has ruined any positive benefit it might have had for the larger Christian community.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The end result is members, even young members, who can recite spiritual jargon but really have no clue what they are talking about. Maybe a lot of it is just harmless, I'm not out to judge, but I do see it all the time on places like Facebook. The more concerning issue, however, is what happens when all these people run into problems that they're not ready to deal with, problems that reciting spiritual jargon can't solve. Again, I'm not saying that WL's ministry itself is the dead end, it's how it is being utilized and promoted. It is my belief that the current LC approach to WL's ministry has ruined any positive benefit it might have had for the larger Christian community.

How do you know that people don't have a clue what they are talking about based upon their Facebook post?

[Cal]

To me a test of your validity and sincerity as a believer is: Can you pass on your faith to the next generation? The cliche is that the preacher's kids are often the wildest. Witness Lee's son Philip was out of control. It's a real challenge that can be easily blown if you handle it wrong.

I went to an event where the writer of the book The Shack (soon to be a movie) spoke frankly about his life. His dad was a Christian worker of some sort, but one who showed very little love for his children. He was well-behaved at church, but abusive at home. It's a sad legacy that is repeated all too often.

There is something about we committed Christians who are parents that tends to expect our kids to be good Christians as a matter of course. This won't work. We need to be proactive in a genuine way.

My approach is simple and basic:

• Love your kids.
  
• Be holy, but not holier-than-thou.
  
• Apologize when you've done wrong. Don't protect your image.
  
• Be genuine.
  
• Don't be a prude. Have a sense of humor.
  
• Teach your kids the essentials: Love. Relationships. Prayer. Faith. Trust. The positive rewards of a life entrusted to God.
  
• A little theology is okay, but don't overdo it. They will tune it out. Always bring it back to a joyful and natural relationship with God.
  
• Always let them know that they are special to God. Teach them to be content and comfortable with how God made them.
  
• Laugh a lot. Have a happy home.
  
• Show them a life of sacrificial love. This where the rubber meets the road. This is what God honors.
  
• Pray, pray, pray.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This is the dark side of declaring "Christianity" as "fallen, divided Babylon." If people don't think there is anything really positive there they can't get help there. They get stuck in limbo. Some never break out of it.

There will be an accounting for all these damaged people. Somebody will be held accountable. Lord help us all.

This to me is inexcusable. Many workers / trainers at LSM actively desire to make their young people totally "wrecked" for Christianity. They would rather have these young people in the world or in a mental hospital, than have them in another Christian church. How pathetic is this?

This disease came straight from the top. The constant railing against all things Christian, has born fruit, bad fruit.

One of the things that surprised us the most, while visiting other churches, is this multi-generational faith. We often saw 3 generations of Christians in the church, with the grandchildren marrying and starting the fourth. What a beautiful thing!

Exclusivism truly is a self-destructive disease.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This to me is inexcuseable. Many workers / trainers at LSM actively desire to make the young people "wrecked" for Christianity. They would rather have these young people in the world or in a mental hospital, than have them in another Christian church. How pathetic is this?

This disease came straight from the top. The constant railing against all things Christian, has born fruit, bad fruit.

One of the things that surprised us the most, while visiting other churches, is this multi-generational faith. We often saw 3 generations of Christians in the church, with the grandchildren marrying and starting the fourth. What a beautiful thing!

Exclusivism truly is a self-destructive disease.

Generational Christianity is evident in Catholic and JW churches too. Actually the Mormons do it even better, with the power of exponentiation with multiple wives.