My Testimony

[JJ]

Right on, brothers! I've been enjoying the responses to New Beginnings' question about what sanctification looks like. Legalism looks like the Pharisees..... adding rules that aren't in scripture to place burdens on others they can't bear themselves, and missing the heart of God....which is to see God Himself in Christ, repent of our absolute unholiness, then place our lives in His hands to work out His holiness as we live "ordinary" human lives filled with His Holy Spirit.

[New Beginnings]

Thank you all again, those were wonderful responses.

I experienced grace and countless blessings today, I really appreciate you all helping me get into the right frame of mind.

Originally Posted by aron

This dissolution of (John's) self created the matrix to form the new man.

I can visualize this. My hideous self dissolving in a flowing steam of living water. It is a refreshing thought.

Originally Posted by NewManLiving

I believe that He just desires us to love Him and believe Him. Sometimes that is not so easy especially when everything seems to be going wrong. He looks at our heart and not our mistakes.

We had a guest pastor at my little co-op this morning. His message sounded something like the above quote. The Lord doesn't look at our mistakes.

The pastor used Psalm 1 for the scripture and he gave a sweet little analogy of a tree and all the care required from the gardener for the tree to flourish. The tree itself cannot flourish from its own efforts.

Have a lovely weekend and thank you again!

[New Beginnings]

One significant roadblock I have met again and again in my past attempts to get my family out of the LC deals with feeling the spirit. Some have said to me that the LC is the only place they have felt the spirit, or that their feelings confirm the presence and oneness of spirit within the group. It appears that this is still a stumbling block for us as we are finally departing.

Now I personally have always been skeptical about this. Initially coming into the LC, it looked attractive. So I tried it on for size and it did not fit. As much as I hate to admit this here, I can only recall two instances where I was in spirit by definition of being in an elated emotional state during a meeting. One of these instances was my LC baptism (my second baptism.)

Now my experiences of the spirit include private feelings of conviction or empowerment. I have felt comfort in my sufferings in solitude. I have felt love and encouragement in more intimate exchanges with other believers. But public displays of affection for my Lord have always felt awkward.

I had an interesting experience recently. I went to a memorial service, which clearly is an emotionally charged atmosphere in itself. The service was a Messianic Jewish service which was a new experience for me. I found it quite lovely and moving. I felt the spirit comforting us in our grief and as we praised the Lord, I felt joy for our dear brother who has left this world to be with the Lord. I feel like it is in these circumstances, where we share in each other’s grief and loss, where the spirit comes in and unites us. However, my LC family, who also attended the service, did not see it that way. There was bountiful criticism unleashed during the drive home.

It is my nature to shy away from charismatic groups. I haven’t found any evidence that these emotional experiences are in any way a confirmation of my salvation. I see the unity of spirit to be a bond of love, humility, gentleness and patience between believers on a personal level. But, in case I’m missing something, is there any reason I should question my conclusion? Is there any evidence that there needs to be a corporate emotional response to the Lord?

Thank you.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by New Beginnings

I see the unity of spirit to be a bond of love, humility, gentleness and patience between believers on a personal level.

I believe it should be as I quoted. Problem is in the local churches I just haven't seen love and humility towards non-LSM/LC Christians.
In my post-LC experiences, where a believer chooses to meet is irrelevant in matters of "love, humility, gentleness and patience between believers". One could stop meeting with one church in favor of another, but it doesn't become a condition in receiving one another.

[NewManLiving]

The Lord is so simple. We are the ones who are complex. There is nothing that I'm aware of in scripture about "feeling" the Spirit. But there is a lot said about being filled in Spirit and how we go about doing that. Even during the outpouring of the Spirit in Acts, there is no mention of feelings just a lot of fillings. This does not mean that they did not feel something, it's just that filling is far more superior than feeling. There is also much said about the Peace of God which surpasses all understanding. In other words, when things are not so good and we may feel lousy, we can still have a deep peace that comes from pleasing God.

The Lord tells us that where two or three are gathered in His name then He is also present. Does not say anything about feelings, or being on some local ground or meeting with a certain group of people. We add all this complexity - not Him. He is always present with us and among us when we gather in His name. Why is it so hard for us just to take Him at His Word. Lord we believe but help our unbelief!

[JJ]

Originally Posted by NewManLiving

The Lord is so simple. We are the ones who are complex. There is nothing that I'm aware of in scripture about "feeling" the Spirit. But there is a lot said about being filled in Spirit and how we go about doing that. Even during the outpouring of the Spirit in Acts, there is no mention of feelings just a lot of fillings. This does not mean that they did not feel something, it's just that filling is far more superior than feeling. There is also much said about the Peace of God which surpasses all understanding. In other words, when things are not so good and we may feel lousy, we can still have a deep peace that comes from pleasing God.

The Lord tells us that where two or three are gathered in His name then He is also present. Does not say anything about feelings, or being on some local ground or meeting with a certain group of people. We add all this complexity - not Him. He is always present with us and among us when we gather in His name. Why is it so hard for us just to take Him at His Word. Lord we believe but help our unbelief!

I generally agree that focusing on feeling (or even on "my spirit" as is taught in LC) versus turning our hearts to behold our glorious Lord himself is a mistake.

I recall an instance that describes something of a feeling in the New Testament, but most translations don't use the word feeling (a few do):

Luke 24:32 They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?” (New American Standard Version)

I think we can relate to this. When the Lord opens the scripture to us, and sometimes it is through other believers, sometimes directly, our hearts can burn within.

[NewManLiving]

Originally Posted by JJ

I generally agree that focusing on feeling (or even on "my spirit" as is taught in LC) versus turning our hearts to behold our glorious Lord himself is a mistake.

I recall an instance that describes something of a feeling in the New Testament, but most translations don't use the word feeling (a few do):

Luke 24:32 They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?” (New American Standard Version)

I think we can relate to this. When the Lord opens the scripture to us, and sometimes it is through other believers, sometimes directly, our hearts can burn within.

Don't mean to imply that there is no feeling. Joy is certainly a feeling or emotion. Feelings of joy and a deep sense of the presence of the Lord encourage us to go on and run the race. But I mean something different. The best way to describe it is to use an example. Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit and looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God. However he was also being bludgeoned to death. So feelings become irrelevant under such extreme conditions. But I often wonder what he actually felt. Did he even feel any of the stones bashing at him while he gazed at the glory of God??

[Ohio]

New Beginnings, like your LC family, I too was "trained" to critique all other Christian gatherings, and only sense the Lord when we met together. This indoctrination is, of course, self-fulfilling. I was programmed to condemn outsiders, and to only love insiders, and so that's what I did, thus "proving" that what I was taught about the LC was "true."

I had many, many so-called charismatic corporate experiences of the Lord in the meetings, especially in those early days, not tongue-speaking, but definitely "feeling" the Spirit. Some were very real, and some were probably manufactured, and some were just "fun" times with the saints. I also, however, felt the deadness, dryness, boredom, depression, etc. sitting in the meetings, especially as the years wore on. I went to many Anaheim trainings during the 90's, and I just took notes to keep from falling asleep. Eventually, I felt the same way towards the Cleveland regional gatherings.

The healthiest experiences, I now believe, are personal with the Lord. Unfortunately, the faith of many of the LC'ers is tied to their meetings. That is why they are so devastated when passing thru their regular "storms." Personal experiences of the Lord are definitely the healthiest. They are "portable." They can occur in any location. Just you and Jesus.

I remember right after I got saved, I went to a friend's Catholic wedding and wanted to receive communion during the Mass. I was filled in the Spirit with the Lord. It was wonderful. The Lord felt so near to me. A few months later I came to the LC and slowly got filled with "Catholic hate," and now I could never have that experience again at Mass.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by New Beginnings

One significant roadblock I have met again and again in my past attempts to get my family out of the LC deals with feeling the spirit. Some have said to me that the LC is the only place they have felt the spirit, or that their feelings confirm the presence and oneness of spirit within the group. It appears that this is still a stumbling block for us as we are finally departing.

For your husband to be willing to depart, his conscience must have been bothered for some time. Just because someone has a truthful yet negative account of the local churches, even if believed wouldn't be enough for a brother be willing to leave.
"Feeling the Spirit" appears to be an emotional response to some of the local church practices. I have firmly believed a brother or sister can be in spirit silently. They don't need to be loud and verbally expressive in order to be seen as "one in their spirit".