I'm a student in the FTT - AMA

[Peter Debelak]

All (and to AMA):

He/She did get piled on with a multitude of response. It would have been overwhelming.

But if it was a genuine question - a burning one - no amount of push-back would have quelched it.

I remember my initial post, which caused this forum to rain down upon me in critique (snide, sarcastic and otherwise). I didn't realize how pointed and insular my language was. I didn't realize my assumed premises. But I also didn't relinquish one single point until I owned them myself.

To date, I have had a multitude of debates and disagreements on this forum. And I have had faith-affirming relationships here. Its been years since I posted here, but I have never forgotten the value of the dialogue this forum presents. Its only "damaging" if you don't own your own faith. Otherwise, it is a sharpening stone.

Post or do not post. But do so for the sake of your faith, not your curriculum.

In Love,

Peter

[ACuriousFellow]

My mentor is a graduate of the FTTA. He would become quite angry any time I questioned Recovery doctrine or when I protested the decisions of the elders. There was another graduate who called my testimony "trash" when I tried to bring concerns regarding the elders in my locality and Recovery doctrine in general. Such fascinating people these graduates are.

I would personally like to know, first and foremost, if they've ever heard the names "Jo Casteel," "Steve Isitt," and "John Ingalls."

If the answer is yes, I'd like to know if they have read/heard the testimonies of these people. Not what they think of these people or if they feel these people were good or bad. Simply if they have read/heard their testimonies.

Those two questions are certainly first and foremost in my heart.

You have to remember that in Local church individual discernment is not a thing, but it’s all about the body. The body as in all graduates of FTT and all those who are the layman, have to be subjected to the head, which is the LSM and the apostles blenders. When the letter from Jo surfaced, I was already kind of on my way out of there, and I remember my wife almost literally forbidding me from finding out what was in it, because they were all scared to death that it’s the biggest poison they can read.

I bet 98% of people who are in there, know nothing about it, or read it. I’m not sure which locality she and her husband were in, maybe those are the only few people who read the letter. It was quickly shoved under the rug, and made to be of no need for anyone except the few select “matured” (as I was told) bros to review it. Furthermore, local church is kind of set up like a baby in a mother’s womb, members swim in that water of oneness, protected by the wise master builders, and are fed by the LSM as an umbilical cord that supplies and discerns everything they need for their maturity. They never see a real world, nor in most cases they ever come out of the womb because they will die spiritually.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

My mentor is a graduate of the FTTA. He would become quite angry any time I questioned Recovery doctrine or when I protested the decisions of the elders. There was another graduate who called my testimony "trash" when I tried to bring concerns regarding the elders in my locality and Recovery doctrine in general. Such fascinating people these graduates are.

I would personally like to know, first and foremost, if they've ever heard the names "Jo Casteel," "Steve Isitt," and "John Ingalls."

If the answer is yes, I'd like to know if they have read/heard the testimonies of these people. Not what they think of these people or if they feel these people were good or bad. Simply if they have read/heard their testimonies.

Those two questions are certainly first and foremost in my heart.

I know for a fact the responsible brothers in Bellevue, Washington were paranoid of Steve Isitt. Somehow they had this concept Steve would actively try to poison the young people.
Question 1 - how did Steve get a hand on Speaking the Truth in Love to transcribe electronically? Mother of a FTTA graduate had one. I knew her husband well in the 1990's/early 2000's. Back then I never knew John wrote anything. Anyways part of why Steve remained disfellowshipped is the brothers couldn't trust him and sure didn't want him around prospective FTTA trainees. One elder I knew told me whenever Ron Kangas and James Lee would come to Seattle, they would ask "what is Steve Isitt up to?
Question 2 - I would be pressed if any FTTA graduate had read John Ingalls, Steve Isitt, or Jo Casteel.
I lived in corporate living from March 1995-September 1997. It was a house in Bellevue, Washington owned by Teresa Zimmerman-Liu and her husband. (I feel I can mention Teresa's name since she has articles on this forum). Several brothers I loved with were funny and loved life. These brothers made me laugh and I made them laugh. This was prior to their attending of FTTA. Once they passed through FTTA, it seemed their time at the training robbed these fun-loving brothers of their humor and zest of life. They looked the same, but lost their personality.
Last time I heard from one of them was being asked if my first two children would attend Summer School of Truth?

[Jay]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

I know for a fact the responsible brothers in Bellevue, Washington were paranoid of Steve Isitt. Somehow they had this concept Steve would actively try to poison the young people.
Question 1 - how did Steve get a hand on Speaking the Truth in Love to transcribe electronically? Mother of a FTTA graduate had one. I knew her husband well in the 1990's/early 2000's. Back then I never knew John wrote anything. Anyways part of why Steve remained disfellowshipped is the brothers couldn't trust him and sure didn't want him around prospective FTTA trainees. One elder I knew told me whenever Ron Kangas and James Lee would come to Seattle, they would ask "what is Steve Isitt up to?
Question 2 - I would be pressed if any FTTA graduate had read John Ingalls, Steve Isitt, or Jo Casteel.
I lived in corporate living from March 1995-September 1997. It was a house in Bellevue, Washington owned by Teresa Zimmerman-Liu and her husband. (I feel I can mention Teresa's name since she has articles on this forum). Several brothers I loved with were funny and loved life. These brothers made me laugh and I made them laugh. This was prior to their attending of FTTA. Once they passed through FTTA, it seemed their time at the training robbed these fun-loving brothers of their humor and zest of life. They looked the same, but lost their personality.
Last time I heard from one of them was being asked if my first two children would attend Summer School of Truth?

Oh wow. I know Jared Isit. I think maybe that's who you're talking about here? But Jared got divorced around 2006 and I spent time with him directly after. He was deeply hurt by the divorce and I got to know him as a person and he was not at all the type of person who would initiate a divorce for selfish reasons. I in fact don't know why they got divorced, but I know that he was very very distrought over it and doing his best to maintain positivity

Now, around this time I lived in Kirkland which was very close to Bellevue. My mother and I met at the church in Belleuve. I came from the church in Spokane originally, but due to certain life circumstances I had to move in with my mother and she lived in the eastside area of Seattle (Bellevue, Kirkland, Redmond). We lived in Kirkland and drove down to the meetings in Bellevue

I remember noticing the distinct difference in life level and enjoyment of the spirit between Bellevue and Spokane. Spokane was very living, very spirit filled, very consecrated, very loving, and just so full of shepherding. Bellevue was like the exact opposite. There was little to no life, little to no genuine spirit that I could detect, and the atmosphere was stuffy and judgmental (this despite them going through all the regular motions of a meeting such as singing, praying, and prophesying). It was church life culture, but I didn't know what that was at the time because i was too young to understand. I just knew that when I came home from the meetings I felt horrible. Like I literally felt terrible when I got home and I felt better when I didn't go. It was pretty crazy to experience that coming from such a spirit filled church in Spokane (not to say Spokane never had problems, they did have problems with culture and judging others for awhile in the 1990's, but when I was there in the early 2000's it was a glorious time. It was also my honeymoon time with the Lord so I think that played a part as well)


Anyway to my point- I remember Jared Isit and I was there for his divorce. But one day there was a brother's meeting in Bellevue and for some rason I felt compelled to attend. I was around 23 years old and I remember Sherman Robertson was speaking and it was the most crazy meeting I've ever been a part of. The entire meeting Sherman was just bashing this brother Jared Isit. Now he never said the name Jared, but everyone seemed to know who he was talking about because he mentioned this brother was meeting with them from another area and he mentioned this brother had just got divorced. I knew exactly who he was talking about but I couldn't understand why he was bashing him. And all the brothers were grunting "AMEN" loudly and it was one of the most spectacular exhibitions of the flesh I've ever seen in my Christian walk. I was pretty astounded that such a thing actually took place

Sherman also would often stand up and literally yell at the members in Bellevue because there was gaps in between prophesying. I couldn't believe this either. It just was such a wild thing to witness. Here you have an elder brother who clearly is the big boss of the locality standing up angrily threatening the members to stand up and share. It was just so crazy

And looking back he really was the leader there in the sense that what he said goes. He had two or three other brothers around him who were like his lackies and it was just a weird exhibition of ambition for position. Wherever he went they would follow him around, and whenever he was by himself or with his wife his wife would always be like two steps behind him and he walked around like he was the president, with an air of superiority. It was a very weird thing to witness. I'm sure it greatly affected the whole church. I remember once I went and sat in the middle in the front row and I got extreme glares from all the "front row" ambitious brothers who probably felt like they were all in the running to be the next elder. Just boggled my mind how such a thing could exist with all the writings brother Lee put out to guard against ambition in the church

I read something recently by brother Lee and he said something along the lines of "when we first come into the church we have a honeymoon period, and then one day that disappears and we see all the faults with the church. and we should understand that the church is glorious despite these faults and it's still the best place on earth." I'm torn on that statement knowing what I know now of his history and what I've experienced with the controlling ambitious leadership in the churches. It seems like brother Lee knew a lot of the small members would run into these problems with the leadership and would eventually uncover what they have been trying to hide. so he was covering himself saying things like this, which he often would say in his speaking. how is that not gaslighting? it's crazy that we would have leadership that is above criticism when it does something wrong. and we are asked to "just take the cross and cover our brothers." when probably they don't deserve their positions. which btw there shouldn't be positions in the church. that's the clergy-laity system