Testimony of an Ex-Donguismo

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

In the case of DYL, it sounds like some pretty bizarre teachings have been introduced..

The corollary of my third point, that the leader gets elevated to quasi-mystical status, with oracular utterance (God's final prophet, etc), is that the scripture gets skewed almost beyond recognition. In extreme cases (Eastern Lightning ) scripture is dispensed with entirely.

I won't bother to drag out the LC cases; they've been covered on this forum in some detail. Just one thing: notice how the terminology sets it up: "Crystallization" is the culmination of all previous teachings; "Consummation" likewise supersedes everything that precedes it. So Lee the Bible expositor eventually became the Bible's de facto replacement. Where it was convenient (which was often) the Bible could be pointed to as the buttress and shield. Where it was not convenient (also often) the Bible was simply ignored, as if its words had never existed in the divine conversation. Instead we got warmed-over Chinese aphorisms from the oracle. Or something would be snatched out of 19th century Protestant Sunday-school lessons, and waved in the air as if it were suddenly the pathway to the recovery of truth.

[aron]

Seems to me that the first disciples had three problems, post-resurrection. First, if Jesus was king, why wasn't He sitting on a throne in Jerusalem? Why didn't things get restored to their proper order? The Romans were still very much in charge, etc.

Second, what of the law, and Moses' decrees? Note that much of the NT is spent covering this subject. So the atoning death, etc up to the outpouring of the Spirit becomes an analog to the old decrees. "The law of the Spirit of life has freed me from the law of sin and death" etc.

Third, what of the gentiles? Where do they fit into all this?

Now, I bring all this up as contrast to the kingdom-building schemes of Mssrs Lee, Dong et al (including Shouters, Lord Changshou sect, EL as well). Seems that they've an entirely different set of concerns. Their answer to questions 1 and 3 is simply the organization. It's all about building up the kingdom, here on earth. For question 2, laws come and go, rise up and vanish like smoke, according to the need of the moment. Again, it's all about building up the kingdom.

Originally Posted by aron

Seems to me that the first disciples had three problems, post-resurrection. First, if Jesus was king, why wasn't He sitting on a throne in Jerusalem? Why didn't things get restored to their proper order? The Romans were still very much in charge, etc.

Second, what of the law, and Moses' decrees? Note that much of the NT is spent covering this subject. So the atoning death, etc up to the outpouring of the Spirit becomes an analog to the old decrees. "The law of the Spirit of life has freed me from the law of sin and death" etc.

Third, what of the gentiles? Where do they fit into all this?

Now, I bring all this up as contrast to the kingdom-building schemes of Mssrs Lee, Dong et al (including Shouters, Lord Changshou sect, EL as well). Seems that they've an entirely different set of concerns. Their answer to questions 1 and 3 is simply the organization. It's all about building up the kingdom, here on earth. For question 2, laws come and go, rise up and vanish like smoke, according to the need of the moment. Again, it's all about building up the kingdom.

may sound a little bit off track, but, are you connected to a brother Gino based in Bogota, Colombia?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Tdzikenu

may sound a little bit off track, but, are you connected to a brother Gino based in Bogota, Colombia?

Iafrancesco? No, sorry.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

The corollary of my third point, that the leader gets elevated to quasi-mystical status, with oracular utterance (God's final prophet, etc), is that the scripture gets skewed almost beyond recognition. In extreme cases (Eastern Lightning ) scripture is dispensed with entirely.

I am told that the most recent elders training (ITERO) was held in Brazil at the beginning of this month. It doesn’t take a genius to correlate Brazil with being the territory of DYL. What do you know, but apparently some innuendos against DYL were made. Something about him having converted meeting halls to coffee shops/bookstores. Whatever, I don’t care what he is doing, because none of us are following him. But somehow LC leaders view him as some significant threat.

Apparently it was claimed that the economy of Brazil isn’t doing that well, and that is the “Lord’s doing”, so that DYL’s coffee shops/bookstores can be shut down!?!? You really can’t make this stuff up. This is what LCers believe. Like I have stated before, those like DYL and Titus spawned from Lee. No, I don’t see it as a simple guilt by association. These brothers took Lee as their pattern, so they are the “extreme” side of Lee.

The website afaithfulwitness.org has a “repentance” from various coworkers about a situation that occurred when someone recently tried to receive DYL back into the LC. Prepare yourself for a good laugh: http://afaithfulwitness.org/warnings...2014-03-10.pdf

Personally, I don’t care what DYL is or isn’t doing, but until the "coworkers" can accept responsibility for these fellows like DYL that have been created as a result of Lee’s ministry, the so-called turmoils will keep reoccurring. When will leaders learn?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I am told that the most recent elders training (ITERO) was held in Brazil at the beginning of this month. It doesn’t take a genius to correlate Brazil with being the territory of DYL. What do you know, but apparently some innuendos against DYL were made. Something about him having converted meeting halls to coffee shops/bookstores. Whatever, I don’t care what he is doing, because none of us are following him. But somehow LC leaders view him as some significant threat.

Personally, I don’t care what DYL is or isn’t doing, but until the "coworkers" can accept responsibility for these fellows like DYL that have been created as a result of Lee’s ministry, the so-called turmoils will keep reoccurring. When will leaders learn?

Ones like DYL are perceived as a threat perhaps because he's encroaching on LSM's perceived market.
The leaders won't learn anything until they come to accept history. Local Churches are taking the same path as the Brethren.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

Ones like DYL are perceived as a threat perhaps because he's encroaching on LSM's perceived market.
The leaders won't learn anything until they come to accept history. Local Churches are taking the same path as the Brethren.

It's almost humorous that LC leaders would be so quick to attribute all the LC problems to people like TC or DYL. It's almost certainly an issue of them having a clutch on the same market as LSM. After all, the only people following those like DYL are those who have disassociated with LSM.

Aside from the past LC relationship, DYL followers are just another fringe movement like many other weird sects. They dissociated with the LSM sect to form another sect just as bad.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's almost humorous that LC leaders would be so quick to attribute all the LC problems to people like TC or DYL. It's almost certainly an issue of them having a clutch on the same market as LSM. After all, the only people following those like DYL are those who have disassociated with LSM.

Aside from the past LC relationship, DYL followers are just another fringe movement like many other weird sects. They dissociated with the LSM sect to form another sect just as bad.

They need and require cult followers. That's their market.

Why is it that it seems that, humans are attracted to cults like flies to fecal matter?

Oh, by the way guys, Dong Yu Lan has died yesterday. Later I'll ask my parents if a "sucessor" has been chosen yet.