The Snare Of A Believer's Commitment

[Jesus4Me]

Ever wonder how any one can make a commitment to do something when it involves tomorrow? We all have heard it at one time or another; "I am committed to doing this, and so ..." meaning, he is bound to finish it, all else is to be set aside as secondary.

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

The scripture above leaves no room for commitments or promises, because that would be citing your will to be done and not the Lord's will.

What's the big deal?

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

"I am sorry, Lord.. I have made prior commitments and promises and so I cannot come to the Marriage Supper. Please have me excuse." Is that not saying the same thing?

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

So take heed of His warnings:

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So ask Jesus for forgiveness and ask Him to set you free from all commitments that has evil boastings of tomorrows and rest in Him & His promises to you so that when the Bridegroom comes, you are not bound by any snares of the oath binding world that would have you excusing yourself from Him from attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

In our personal walk with Him, we follow Him by faith; not by doing the best we can in keeping our commitments and promises, because that is not the power for living the christian life nor for following Him.

We really can only follow Him by faith in the Son of God in us & all His promises to us. That is how we can get to know Him & the power of His resurrection is when we take Him at His Word & see Him working in our lives wherein we see ourselves following Him what we could not do before by keeping a commitment or promise to do so.

May Jesus set those astray, free, from the world's bondages and from the religious bondages, to be ready to go.

[Freedom]

I think there is a lot of truth to your points on commitment. The LCM is a system built around commitment, and I do believe that because members are so committed to the movement itself, they have missed the boarding call to follow Jesus alone. In the local church, they have a so-called Bible School called the Full-Time Training. It is a two year commitment, and I would say that one of the main (undisclosed) reason for their training is member retention. Every person who attends this training has made a two year commitment of their lives to attend. Because it's not a seminary, but a proprietary ministry-run training, upon graduation they remain associated with affiliated churches. It's a 100% commitment is to the ministry of LSM and associated churches. Someone who has just spent the last two years of their life is not likely to leave the LCM anytime soon. Leaders know this better than anyone. It's exactly what they want.

Even among the rank and file members, they take great amount of pride with how long they have been in the LCM. It's not uncommon to hear members say things like "I thank the Lord that He has kept me in the church-life for 40 years". It is very clear that when they say such things that the focus is commitment to a system. Why couldn't they instead say how thankful they are that they have been following Jesus for 40 years? It's a wake up call that many people need to hear.

[OBW]

The real point is not to refrain from commitment. It is to refrain from allowing commitment to keep you from your part in the kingdom.

The story actually says nothing about commitment. Instead it speaks of what is more important to you. Is it your oxen or the Lord? As with everything, there is a time for the oxen.

And to simply excise commitment to anything but the Lord is not what is spoken of. You cannot be a reliable employee without commitment. And the Lord would have you be a reliable employee. But commitment to employment, while having an aspect of "tomorrow" in it, does not excuse you from your part with the Lord. And it wont do it unless you allow it to.

[Jesus4Me]

Originally Posted by OBW

The real point is not to refrain from commitment. It is to refrain from allowing commitment to keep you from your part in the kingdom.

The story actually says nothing about commitment. Instead it speaks of what is more important to you. Is it your oxen or the Lord? As with everything, there is a time for the oxen.

And to simply excise commitment to anything but the Lord is not what is spoken of. You cannot be a reliable employee without commitment. And the Lord would have you be a reliable employee. But commitment to employment, while having an aspect of "tomorrow" in it, does not excuse you from your part with the Lord. And it wont do it unless you allow it to.

Commitment is nothing less but saying "I will do it." And if you clock in, the employers expect you in your commitment to clock out when off the clock. The Bridegroom is not going to wait for you to clock out.

Same goes for public office, police, & military. And yes, promises have been introduce for elders & deacons when they take office, and that was not taught by the N.T. Bible for any believer to do, but there it is. A snare for the cares of this life which is of the world.

And yet it is not I who live but Jesus Christ in me, so can I really make a commitment in speaking in regards to my will & intentions to do something even that day?

Commitment is tesifying of yourself and therefore that testimony is false.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

If you keep that commitment, you get the credit and the glory,but if you only speak of your faith in Jesus Christ as He is the power in how you are following Him, then He gets the credit & the glory; you cannot do both.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Commitment is a rudiment of the world that religious people can identify with; it is a calling that many wise men in the flesh, many mighty men, and many nobles can respond to as it puts them in the spotlight in teh eyes of men.

Narcotics Anonymous & Alcoholic Anonymous uses commitment and a reference to a higher power of anyone's choice; from Jesus Christ to a tree. The credit & glory for keeping that commitment to stay sober goes to the person that made that commitment as that person gets a token like a coin or whatever that depicts how long that person has been sober.

People in NA & AA are free to give credit to their "higher power", but you can imagine the eyes rolling from christians when they hear others credit their success to something else; just as those that refer to a different higher power will roll their eyes when christians give credit to Jesus Christ.

So there is no getting around it; a believer's commitment speaks of himself or herself and it is to his or her own glory for keeping it. This is why Jesus refer to commitments, promises, dedications, and any religious altar call that brings a believer into bondage as teaching for doctrines the commadments of men; and that is why they are worshipping Him in vain.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.....18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

So you have to ask yourself how you are following Jesus; by the flesh by doing the best you can in keeping that commitment which goes to your credit & glory or by faith in the Son of God in getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection when you see Him helping you to follow Him?

It's a believer's commitment or a believer's faith; it cannot be both.

The believer living by faith is free to go when the Bridegroom comes because he or she is following Jesus by faith; not by keeping a commitment.

Since no flesh shall glory in His Presence and we are to stand fast in the liberty which Christ has set us free and be not entangle again in a yoke of bondage, how can a believer claim those verses of his or her walk with Him in the face of his or her commitment?

So how we follow Him is key; by faith in the Son of God or all His promises to us or...

....by our commitment that many religious people of the world can identify with & praise christians for doing?

Do not people add promises to God's covenant of marriage as if they are binding themselves together when it is God joining them together? Do they not boast of their love for each other & yet love is not boastful?

Shania Twain's "From This Moment.." music video can swoon even me, but the reality of that song being made up of hers & her husbands' vows to each other from her first marriage ends when they had gotten a divorce.

Best seeking the praise of God rather then the praise of men.

Do we not serve Him by faith? Then that includes our work & our relationships because we are living this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. What need of our commitmets when we are relying on His commitment to us in helping us to follow Him, whethor it be in our job, or in our relationships since we are enabled by Him to do so as unto the Lord.

So we should not be concern about how people look at us by how we keep our commitments nor concern how the Lord looks at us in how we keep our commitments when we do not want to be judged by it. Truly hard to see one's faith in Jesus Christ & what He is doing for us when under that yoke.

We should be concern how the Lord looks upon us in applying our faith in Him in everything for us to do all things by Him for that is the power in living the christian life; by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us.

May God lead believers to see the truth in His words as to why they should ask Jesus to set them free from all yokes of bondages to be ready to go.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

Commitment is nothing less but saying "I will do it." And if you clock in, the employers expect you in your commitment to clock out when off the clock. The Bridegroom is not going to wait for you to clock out.

Same goes for public office, police, & military. And yes, promises have been introduce for elders & deacons when they take office, and that was not taught by the N.T. Bible for any believer to do, but there it is. A snare for the cares of this life which is of the world.

Mixing your metaphors just a little. When the Bridegroom comes, you don't get the option to stay clocked in.

Your insistence that keeping a commitment is somehow "in the flesh" and you "get the credit and the glory" is really not what these passages are saying. I would conjecture that keeping your commitment to clock in and clock out according to what is expected by your employer because you have an inner code of righteousness is precisely the definition of not being "in the flesh." Your flesh wants to either cut it short or give it so much that you take away from other responsibilities, including to the Lord.

You speak of God's covenant of marriage. Last time I looked, God was not the one getting married when you stand before a few people and make commitment. So you think that the common tradition of vows at a wedding is against God? Talk about making more and more laws to hang around the necks of the followers of Christ. I have enough trouble keeping up with the ones Christ actually commanded. I don't need yours.

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

Commitment is testifying of yourself and therefore that testimony is false.

What makes this so? You declare it to be some kind of clear fact. But why? Neither the verse you quote before or after says that.

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

It's a believer's commitment or a believer's faith; it cannot be both.

Where did you get this? If you have no commitment to follow, I question your faith. None of the verses you have quoted suggest this in any way.

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

May God lead believers to see the truth in His words as to why they should ask Jesus to set them free from all yokes of bondages to be ready to go.

What does this mean? Be free of the responsibility to anyone or anything?

One of the things that I find so problematic in the teachings and sayings of Lee, and of many who toss the LCM aside but still want it, is that it sounds to high and pious, but is just made-up. They say such spiritual-sounding things but can't establish that it is actually true. If someone in the church started teaching like the things you have put in this post, it would be time to leave. Talk about the law. God's actual law is enough. Yours is just too much.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

May God lead believers to see the truth in His words as to why they should ask Jesus to set them free from all yokes of bondages to be ready to go.

Originally Posted by OBW

What does this mean? Be free of the responsibility to anyone or anything?

One of the things that I find so problematic in the teachings and sayings of Lee, and of many who toss the LCM aside but still want it, is that it sounds to high and pious, but is just made-up. They say such spiritual-sounding things but can't establish that it is actually true. If someone in the church started teaching like the things you have put in this post, it would be time to leave. Talk about the law. God's actual law is enough. Yours is just too much.

J4M says "They should ask Jesus" which means a burden and a commitment on the believer. How is this not another religious edict from man's fallen imagination? I agree w/OBW that we may indeed perceive traps and snares, and prescribe our own.

On the other hand, J4M does say "May God lead believers to see... etc" which may indicate awareness of the source of the activity. Not our efforts but God's salvation. Our faith is not in ourselves but in God. And, specifically, God saving us through Jesus Christ's atoning death, and life-giving resurrection.

J4M says, "Your testimony is false", but so is J4M's testimony, here. As is mine, arguably, and OBW's. The true testimony is Jesus Christ. Not Witness Lee, not Darby or Pember or Luther. So I don't interest myself in my commitment, nor yours, nor even your (J4M's) reaction to commitment, which is also a kind of commitment. J4M is displaying subconscious committment to reacting against those who commit. Also vain. The only truth is in Jesus Christ. His commitment to God is unimpeachable. The rest of us, if we fail in the slightest thing, we fail. Jesus is the way.

[OBW]

Aron,

We can't all be right or OK. Neither can any of us be right in all ways. I know I am not.

Originally Posted by aron

The true testimony is Jesus Christ. Not Witness Lee, not Darby or Pember or Luther.

So neither yours nor mine is true?

Then how do we overcome by the blood of the Lamb any by the word of our testimony? Seems contradictory. Or ignoring context.

And that is what J4M is mainly doing — ignoring context and presuming that any example given is a general principle and useful to reinterpret any other passage. And every use of a particular word always has the same meaning no matter how much that fights with the context of usage.

[Jesus4Me]

Originally Posted by OBW

Mixing your metaphors just a little. When the Bridegroom comes, you don't get the option to stay clocked in.

Your insistence that keeping a commitment is somehow "in the flesh" and you "get the credit and the glory" is really not what these passages are saying.

My bad. Seems I cannot avoid making a long post any more. John 7:18 does.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

If you are talking about your commitment, then it is you are talking about yourself, and your keeping it is to your glory. If you speak of Him, them the same is true and no "unrighteousness" is in you. So there is unrighteousness to speak of yourself in seeking your own glory. This is why.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

I would conjecture that keeping your commitment to clock in and clock out according to what is expected by your employer because you have an inner code of righteousness is precisely the definition of not being "in the flesh." Your flesh wants to either cut it short or give it so much that you take away from other responsibilities, including to the Lord.

It is to your glory of keeping that commitment as the employer see "your" inner code of righteousness and not His righteousness in you.

The problem with doing it to the Lord is that He did not ask you to do that. He has no confidence in your flesh to keep such a commitment;

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

Plus, He wants you to stand fast in that liberty and not put on any yoke of bondage ever again.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

So how can you claim that verse as part of walking with Him by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us in Him helping you & enabling you to follow Him when you speak of your commitment which every religious man in the world can relate to and identify with?

You speak of God's covenant of marriage. Last time I looked, God was not the one getting married when you stand before a few people and make commitment.

You are overlooking "..what God has joined together, let no man separate." God is the one making that marriage covenant exists when two people, a man & a woman, agree to be united as one flesh by God.

So you think that the common tradition of vows at a wedding is against God?

Can you find the common traditional vows of a wedding in the Bible? I can't. What people add besides "I do" to each other is extraneous & therefore man-made.

Plus... love is not boastful, now is it?

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Talk about making more and more laws to hang around the necks of the followers of Christ. I have enough trouble keeping up with the ones Christ actually commanded. I don't need yours.

Actually, you have been arguing to add more yokes of bondages as well as overlooking God as the One that created the first marriage.

What makes this so? You declare it to be some kind of clear fact. But why? Neither the verse you quote before or after says that.

Again, as stated earlier in this very post; John 7:18 is the reproof with John 5:31 on what a false witness it is for a believer to speak of himself by his commitment which contains boastings for the flesh to engage in. It would be really hard to avoid the foot of pride when a believer claims to have had or be keeping that commitment to the Lord.

Where did you get this? If you have no commitment to follow, I question your faith. None of the verses you have quoted suggest this in any way.

How about now in light of the previous verses in the OP?

What does this mean? Be free of the responsibility to anyone or anything?

Total reliance on the Lord for everything in living as His as opposed to commitments of the flesh for YOU to keep as if that is the power for living as His; religiously by doing the best you can.

One of the things that I find so problematic in the teachings and sayings of Lee, and of many who toss the LCM aside but still want it, is that it sounds to high and pious, but is just made-up. They say such spiritual-sounding things but can't establish that it is actually true. If someone in the church started teaching like the things you have put in this post, it would be time to leave. Talk about the law. God's actual law is enough. Yours is just too much.

A sinner did not want to come to the Lord because she felt she had to clean up her life first before she could. Why is that? Because she had no confidence in her flesh to make a commitment to follow Christ when sin has reign over her body & her life. She knows she is a sinner, and yet she knows her limit in the flesh. She is defeated by a religious guantlet that has nothing to do with how we are saved, let alone how we live the christian life.

So go ahead. Find a N.T. verse where the disciples looked to such rudimentary means to find some assurance from believers that they are serious by making a commitment or a promise to follow Christ.

And I'll show you what Jesus had shown me that Paul spoke against such rudimentary means so that he can claim he has fully preached the gospel.

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

You wonder why Billy Graham gets allot of praises? Because he led so many to make a commitment to follow Christ. Believers swoon over his accomplishments; They wish they could do the same or close to it.

It doesn't matter how many times Billy Graham uses false modesty in giving the credit to the Lord; he was the one that led believers to make a commitment to follow Christ FOR the assurance of their salvation as if keeping it is how they are saved.

So how many believers out there, right now, have stopped following Jesus because it is too hard to keep that commitment as they find that no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak as seen by trying to keep that commitment the best way they can? How many are doubting that they are saved because they cannot get that assurance by keeping that commitment to follow Christ?

Billy Graham said in an interview with Tony Snow that Jesus might say "Well done," to Billy Graham or He might say ,"You do not belong here." Billy Graham stated that he was not always a good christian.

So his doubleminded state is showing the end result of trying to keep his commitment to follow Christ as he doubts he would be received by Him.

In other words, his hope isn't solely resting on Him for eternal life; and neither for living as His by faith alone, but it is divided by trying to keep that commitment to follow Christ.

A divided hope ceases to be hope so do not divide your singular hope in Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Hebrews 4:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

That is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith as that faith speaks of the Son of God & all His promises to us; not of man at all.

[Jesus4Me]

Originally Posted by aron

J4M says "They should ask Jesus" which means a burden and a commitment on the believer. How is this not another religious edict from man's fallen imagination? I agree w/OBW that we may indeed perceive traps and snares, and prescribe our own.

Proverbs 14:12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

On the other hand, J4M does say "May God lead believers to see... etc" which may indicate awareness of the source of the activity. Not our efforts but God's salvation. Our faith is not in ourselves but in God. And, specifically, God saving us through Jesus Christ's atoning death, and life-giving resurrection.

God the Father does draw men unto the Son for the Son to reveal Himself to them so that they can believe, but there is more. After having been reconciled by Jesus Christ, we can continue to live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. A relationship based on trust that is in progress by continually trusting Jesus as our Good Shepherd to guide us and enable us to follow Him.

He may use others to share His words to us, but in receiving His words & understanding His words, we are nothing since God causes the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

1 Corinthians 4:1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

These scripture should have been used to pull the rug out of Watchman Nee & Lee when they were exalting themselves in the eyes of the people as the first apostle & the last apostle to come to them for the proper interpretation of the scripture.

Those that truly serve Him would refer believers to go before that throne of grace for confirmation on what was shared by the scripture.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

J4M says, "Your testimony is false", but so is J4M's testimony, here. As is mine, arguably, and OBW's. The true testimony is Jesus Christ. Not Witness Lee, not Darby or Pember or Luther. So I don't interest myself in my commitment, nor yours, nor even your (J4M's) reaction to commitment, which is also a kind of commitment. J4M is displaying subconscious committment to reacting against those who commit. Also vain.

Scripture cites in John 7:18 that if you speak of yourself in seeking your own glory, it is unrighteousness. John 5:31 cites that to do so in speaking of yourself in seeking glory for yourself is a false witness. If you speak of Him that sent you, the same is true and no unrighteousness is in you.

So if you speak of yourself in what you cannot do by keeping that commitment in following Christ, but speak of your faith which is in Him in how He is helping you to follow Christ, then you are testifying of the Son in seeking His glory & not your own.

You can testify of yourself when it involves deferring all glory from yourself when it goes to another by testifying of the Son of what He is doing for you so that others may know what Jesus can do for them.

Alot of people will choose monikers in forums about themselves in how they are for Jesus, but the purpose of my nickname is to testify of Him in how He is for us... and my witnessing is done by faith in Jesus Christ in helping me to honour Him in my testimony of Him by seeking His glory and not my own at all.

The only truth is in Jesus Christ. His commitment to God is unimpeachable. The rest of us, if we fail in the slightest thing, we fail. Jesus is the way.

By deferring from yourself in seeking your own glory by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory, then your witness is true and gives hope to the hearers & readers to stop looking to themselves for living as His but to Jesus Christ for He is the power for living as His in following Him as His disciple.

This is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith.

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

Aron,

We can't all be right or OK. Neither can any of us be right in all ways. I know I am not.

So neither yours nor mine is true?

Then how do we overcome by the blood of the Lamb any by the word of our testimony? Seems contradictory. Or ignoring context...

But what is the word of our testimony? Our faith, our commitment, or that of Jesus Christ? I'd argue the latter.

Jesus alone is true, and God has furnished proof to all by raising Him from the dead. Acts 17:31

I find truth by pointing to His truth. My pointing may contain "truth" or "reality", but only insomuch as it bears upon the witness of Christ. If my pointing becomes an object of reality in itself it is nothing. Therefore my commitment to pointing, or testifying, is moot. It is Christ's commitment to testifying to us, of the Father, which is real and true.

We are probably not arguing here, just batting tennis balls back and forth over the net.

Back to Nee and Lee, especially Lee. He essentially said that works are dead, including our feeble attempts to love and obey God. The OT therefore contains "dead letters" of fallen men who vainly declared fealty and obeisance to the divine. Then, you open a HWFMR and it is full of exhortations: "We must" and "we need to" and "we should" and "we ought". Look at an outline of any HWFMR... I haven't read one for some time but the last one I read gave the indelible impression of a collection of heavy burdens upon LC "saints".

In both cases, of rejecting the OT word ("the law") and then imposing the LC law, Lee missed Christ. He missed the fealty and obeisance of the Man Jesus Christ on earth to His Father in heaven, typified and outlined by the prophets, and he also missed the focus on this Jesus Christ as the basis of our earthly good works while in the flesh. How could I follow such a pathway?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by aron

But what is the word of our testimony? Our faith, our commitment, or that of Jesus Christ? I'd argue the latter.

Jesus alone is true, and God has furnished proof to all by raising Him from the dead. Acts 17:31

I find truth by pointing to His truth. My pointing may contain "truth" or "reality", but only insomuch as it bears upon the witness of Christ. If my pointing becomes an object of reality in itself it is nothing. Therefore my commitment to pointing, or testifying, is moot. It is Christ's commitment to testifying to us, of the Father, which is real and true.

We are probably not arguing here, just batting tennis balls back and forth over the net.

Back to Nee and Lee, especially Lee. He essentially said that works are dead, including our feeble attempts to love and obey God. The OT therefore contains "dead letters" of fallen men who vainly declared fealty and obeisance to the divine. Then, you open a HWFMR and it is full of exhortations: "We must" and "we need to" and "we should" and "we ought". Look at an outline of any HWFMR... I haven't read one for some time but the last one I read gave the indelible impression of a collection of heavy burdens upon LC "saints".

In both cases, of rejecting the OT word ("the law") and then imposing the LC law, Lee missed Christ. He missed the fealty and obeisance of the Man Jesus Christ on earth to His Father in heaven, typified and outlined by the prophets, and he also missed the focus on this Jesus Christ as the basis of our earthly good works while in the flesh. How could I follow such a pathway?

While you are right about Christ, I think you are missing a key ingredient. It is not just that we have great theology about someone else. It is that we have a story to tell that involves us. It is that we have changed as a result of a meeting and what has occurred since that meeting.

That is testimony. If I simply say that Jesus does stuff but cannot demonstrate it, or cannot show that it is changing my life, what is it but telling a tale from a book?

The gospel begins with evidence that there is something worth looking at. Bare descriptions of something not able to be seen is seldom what gets you there. It is the evidence that it is actually happening around you. That there are actually people who are changed. That will begin the interest in learning more. At this point, we get into that "how can they believe unless . . . ."

If the only testimony is Christ — if the only true testimony is Christ — then we must be living proof that it doesn't work. I hope that is not the truth. Then there is no evidence that there are people living as image-bearers of Christ. Yes, that is a stand-in fro Christ. But it is the fact of the bearing of the image that is the testimony.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

If you are talking about your commitment, then it is you are talking about yourself, and your keeping it is to your glory. If you speak of Him, them the same is true and no "unrighteousness" is in you. So there is unrighteousness to speak of yourself in seeking your own glory. This is why.

There is a big difference between talking about your commitment, or rather boasting about your commitment, and making and having commitments. You have taken necessities of life and made them all evil because people do sometimes make them evil. Just because there may be an error in a case does not make all cases errors.

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

You are overlooking "..what God has joined together, let no man separate." God is the one making that marriage covenant exists when two people, a man & a woman, agree to be united as one flesh by God.

. . . .

Can you find the common traditional vows of a wedding in the Bible? I can't. What people add besides "I do" to each other is extraneous & therefore man-made.

So you need to find words in the Bible before you will say them? Do you really see the Bible as proscriptively against everything that that it does not proscriptively say anything about positively?

Yes, there is a statement about the permanence of marriage. But that says nothing about the nature of what goes on for its duration. And while not given as vows of a wedding, the source of some of the earlier ones was found in Paul's "submit to one anothers" in Ephesians. How can making a determination of will to abide according to those run afoul of Christ?

Ah. I get it. You think that the will of man is simply sinful, therefore if man wills to do what God has commanded, then it makes it null and void. Support that with scripture and we can discuss it. At least try (like you have tried to assert that making a commitment is contrary to Christ).

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

Plus... love is not boastful, now is it?

And where did you find a boast in anything to elicit this comment?

Originally Posted by Jesus4Me

Total reliance on the Lord for everything in living as His as opposed to commitments of the flesh for YOU to keep as if that is the power for living as His; religiously by doing the best you can.

Sounds so spiritual. But why is it that commitments are simply "of the flesh"? Because Lee said so? Your verses sure haven't given you support.

As for doing the best you can, if you are His, then you should do the best you can as you seek his help and guidance to do even better than what you might think is your best today. This "don't do anything in your self" mantra is a misrepresentation of scripture. If you don't do anything in your self, nothing gets done. If it is simply "in Christ" and you have to wait until you feel like you have enough Christ to do it, then it will never happen.

Besides, Peter clearly said that we have everything we need for righteousness. If that is true, then we should never wait to step out to do the righteous thing (including abiding by the rules of your employer, which you technically commit to do when you accept employment).

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

While you are right about Christ, I think you are missing a key ingredient. It is not just that we have great theology about someone else. It is that we have a story to tell that involves us. It is that we have changed as a result of a meeting and what has occurred since that meeting.

That is testimony. If I simply say that Jesus does stuff but cannot demonstrate it, or cannot show that it is changing my life, what is it but telling a tale from a book?

Now I am sure that we are viewing the same thing. The telling of this particular tale, from this particular book - of God's saving and redeeming love in the person of His sent Son - is a transformative one. We declare Christ not because it is merely Christ, or because we are worthy of it, but because the motive thrust of this tale has not only reached us but now pours through us. The grace of God reaching man has not only come to us but now comes through us, to others. That is the testimony, the telling. And the telling should indicate transformation - my attention was once on other things, and now it is on the Christ. The fact that my attention has turned is in itself a testimony. But the turning is not the testimony; it is the Christ who is the focus: once, always, forever.

Why couldn't it be as simple as making a commitment to be led, as much as is humanly possible, by the Holy Spirit? After all, those are the folks said to be the sons of God.

Recall the altar call? Popularized by famous evangelists of a hundred years ago, success (and fruit) was measured by how many penitents made their way to the 'altar' or 'mourners bench'...neither item of which can be found in the New Testament or New Testament church.

But that other famous phrase, "Give your life to Jesus" bears mention as well. Check this out..."For if there first be a willing mind, it is accepted accorded to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not" 2 Cor. 8:12.

How can you give (commit?) to God, which you do not possess? Yes, you may possess a truly committed mind to give to God five dollars. But if you don't have five dollars, your commitment and your non-sacrifice are null and void. For acceptance is based upon what you have, not what you have not...

And in your life, how much is really yours? Do you own and control your fleshly appetites? Can you easily fast from food, or sex? Can you turn off the wide-screen god for weeks at a time? Can you live without 'entertainment' for hours on end? Do you own your tongue and control it sufficient to say you've given it to God? Look at your life. How much of what you may say "I've given to God", is actually yours to give.

In many cases, you have to rip away from Satan, or the flesh, those aspects you're so brazenly 'giving to God'. For once again, how can you give to God that which you do not possess?

Use the word 'commit' in the place of 'give' and see the similarities.

And note also, this matter of being led by the Holy Spirit...if you can't control the flesh (in all the areas concerning the flesh mentioned above) yourself, how can you be truly led of the Spirit?

I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

[Jesus4Me]

OBW : While you are right about Christ, I think you are missing a key ingredient. It is not just that we have great theology about someone else. It is that we have a story to tell that involves us. It is that we have changed as a result of a meeting and what has occurred since that meeting.

That is testimony. If I simply say that Jesus does stuff but cannot demonstrate it, or cannot show that it is changing my life, what is it but telling a tale from a book?

The gospel begins with evidence that there is something worth looking at. Bare descriptions of something not able to be seen is seldom what gets you there. It is the evidence that it is actually happening around you. That there are actually people who are changed. That will begin the interest in learning more. At this point, we get into that "how can they believe unless . . . ."

If the only testimony is Christ — if the only true testimony is Christ — then we must be living proof that it doesn't work. I hope that is not the truth. Then there is no evidence that there are people living as image-bearers of Christ. Yes, that is a stand-in fro Christ. But it is the fact of the bearing of the image that is the testimony.

As long as your witness of Christ testifies of Him in what He is doing FOR YOU in your life, then it goes to His glory.

But a witness of what you are doing FOR CHRIST does not elevate Him at all, but yourself.

You can say HOW Christ is helping you to serve Him and speak of your faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us in living as His so that others may hope in Him for how they are to live the christian life, BUT that is in regards to your faith in Him & His commitment to you.

Your commitment speaks of you in all things.

Faith in Him & His commitment to you speaks of Him in all things.

That is why you cannot do both because religious people can identify with your commitment, but your faith in Christ & His commitment to you, they cannot identify with that.

It doesn't matter how much you speak of your faith in Christ, the moment you speak of your commitment, those that hear you will only see you, your effort, & your willpower for living the christian life in HOW you are following Him. It is your commitment after all.

Luke 9:23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

The religious world will only read that verse above as an inner commitment, glossing over that denying himself part. They will only read commitments or a promise to follow Him and thus add to His words while ignoring the denying your self part.

To deny himself is to acknowledge that they cannot do it, and so what He is asking followers to do is, do not look to yourself, but to Him, trusting Him, by taking up his cross daily in following Him.

That also means trusting Him that He will help you keep looking to Him for guidance & power in following Him.

So yes, we can talk about ourselves while speaking of Him as long as it is what He is doing FOR US & not US FOR HIM.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

[Jesus4Me]

Originally Posted by OBW

There is a big difference between talking about your commitment, or rather boasting about your commitment, and making and having commitments. You have taken necessities of life and made them all evil because people do sometimes make them evil. Just because there may be an error in a case does not make all cases errors.

Talking about your commitment speaks of you in what you are dedicated into doing & finishing, and so there is no way of avoiding such evil boastings for tomorrow of what you have declared in your flesh & willpower for doing today.

So you need to find words in the Bible before you will say them?

No. We need His words to guide us in how to bear witness; if we speak of ourselves in seeking our own glory to receive the praises of men; that is a false witness.

Proverbs 27:1Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth. 2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Do you really see the Bible as proscriptively against everything that that it does not proscriptively say anything about positively?

Have you seen how Alcoholics Anonymous & Narcotics Anonymous speak of their commitments & their variety of higher powers? It doesn't matter what higher power one may choose from, it is your commitment & you did it. No one in those groups will see the higher power doing it for you.

No one in the religious world will see Jesus Christ doing anything for you in your commitment in serving Him & in following Him. That is a cold hard fact. Your faith in Him is a fairy tale and in darkness of your commitment in the eyes of all those that apply commitment in their religious lives.

Yes, there is a statement about the permanence of marriage. But that says nothing about the nature of what goes on for its duration. And while not given as vows of a wedding, the source of some of the earlier ones was found in Paul's "submit to one anothers" in Ephesians. How can making a determination of will to abide according to those run afoul of Christ?

Do you see submit as an effort of a man's will & strength or do you see submit as surrendering to God's will & strength?

Submit as to yield or to surrender hardly speaks of a man's will & strength, but not submitting by not yielding nor surrendering is definitely man's will speaking in volumes.

When you surrendered to the fact that you cannot save yourself, but God can, where is the glory of a man's will in that?

If you cannot save yourself by the man's will & strength, then what part should it play for following Him?

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

I can see how some believers will see "commit" to mean "I will" instead of "He will".

A believer's commitment is definitely meaning "I will do it".

Commit as used in the Bible means to entrust someone else with it or to roll over.

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. KJV only

As modern Bibles has declined from the testimony & glory of the Son in doing a good job in the keeping of our souls while we suffer, this is what we are entrusting our faithful Creator with as stated in truth by the KJV.

Modern Bibles dropped the subject of the keeping of our souls of what we are committing our Saviour with, to commiting our souls to Him in doing good while we suffer. It is no wonder why so many believers see nothing wrong with commitments.

Ah. I get it. You think that the will of man is simply sinful, therefore if man wills to do what God has commanded, then it makes it null and void. Support that with scripture and we can discuss it. At least try (like you have tried to assert that making a commitment is contrary to Christ).

Where is the man's will to do what God has commanded in the O.T.? Where is the man's will to keep His commandments in making himself good and be good?

If you ask someone to make a promise to Christ Jesus to never sin again, can you believe he can keep it? If not, what do you think is involved in keeping a commitment to follow Christ?

Why do believers insists that backsliding believers need to make a recommitment to follow Christ while giving grace for themselves as if they had never sinned by saying they had kept their commitment since five years old or whenever?

Why do believers feel they are not in a position to correct others since by their commitments, they have not followed Christ perfectly either, even though they are not committing the same sin as the others are doing?

Why do believers waslk away from Jesus defeated because they could not keep their commitment to follow Him?

Why do sinners walk away from Jesus, thinking they need to clean up their lives first before coming to Jesus?

Why do you insists that a man's will is how we follow Him at all when no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak?

And where did you find a boast in anything to elicit this comment?

Maybe I should ask you to apply what God means about boasting then, and how believers' commitments does not encroach on that at all.

Sounds so spiritual. But why is it that commitments are simply "of the flesh"? Because Lee said so?

I do not know Lee's stand on this issue other than from what Freedom had shared earlier in this thread. Seems that Lee had used commitment as a means to brainwash followers by.

Your verses sure haven't given you support.

For the longest time, I did not see my commitment making me double-minded in my walk with Him, in spiet of all of the verses I have read, until He did show me how my doing the best I can is NOT relying on Him all the time for living the christian life in following Him.

He wants you to rely on Him all the time for following Him so that you may know Him & the pwoer of His resurrection when you see yourself following Him by faith in Him from what you could not do before by keeping that commitment to follow Him by.

As for doing the best you can, if you are His, then you should do the best you can as you seek his help and guidance to do even better than what you might think is your best today. This "don't do anything in your self" mantra is a misrepresentation of scripture. If you don't do anything in your self, nothing gets done. If it is simply "in Christ" and you have to wait until you feel like you have enough Christ to do it, then it will never happen.

ah... there ya go. You did it. Not Him.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

How can believers see Christ in you empowering you when YOU are the one doing it?

How can you know how much you did and when Christ stepped in doing it for you?

So are you really crucified with Christ if you are living by doing the best you can?

Galatians 2: 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If righteousness comes by doing the best you can in following Him and for living as His, then has Christ died in vain? If that is the power for living the christian life by doing the best you can, then we should have been able to keep the law under the Old Covenant, right?

Besides, Peter clearly said that we have everything we need for righteousness. If that is true, then we should never wait to step out to do the righteous thing (including abiding by the rules of your employer, which you technically commit to do when you accept employment).

Although your employers expect you to be in the flesh as obedient unto them, Paul lifts your sights higher to be free unto Him in doing it for Him so that as free in working as unto Him & not unto their employers, they are free to heed Him when the Bridegroom calls.

Colossians 3: 22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God; 23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

Maybe you need to read about how Paul addresses his own will & effort.

Philippians 3:1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,....

May God help you to suffer the loss of keeping your commitment in following Him to getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection when you are trusting Him all the time for His strength & power for following Him, thereby resting in Him for living as His and not just for eternal life.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.....9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Psalm 34:18The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Psalm 51:17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 33:18Behold, the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;...21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O Lord, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Do you believe Him to lean on Him all the time for following Him?

Where do you see your commitment in anything you are trusting Him for?

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

[Jesus4Me]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Why couldn't it be as simple as making a commitment to be led, as much as is humanly possible, by the Holy Spirit? After all, those are the folks said to be the sons of God.

Because it is not humanly possible to be led by the keeping of the law by the Holy Spirit and so it is not humanly possible to be led by the keeping of that commitment to follow Christ by the Holy Spirit.

We are led by faith in Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit in us.

Recall the altar call? Popularized by famous evangelists of a hundred years ago, success (and fruit) was measured by how many penitents made their way to the 'altar' or 'mourners bench'...neither item of which can be found in the New Testament or New Testament church.

Agreed. No altar call should be given that would take away the credit & glory in God saving believers at the hearing of the gospel by sharing that credit & glory with the person making that altar call.

But that other famous phrase, "Give your life to Jesus" bears mention as well. Check this out..."For if there first be a willing mind, it is accepted accorded to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not" 2 Cor. 8:12.

How can you give (commit?) to God, which you do not possess? Yes, you may possess a truly committed mind to give to God five dollars. But if you don't have five dollars, your commitment and your non-sacrifice are null and void. For acceptance is based upon what you have, not what you have not...

How can you believe in God what you did not possess in believing before? So in reality, your believing in Jesus Christ is also a work of God Himself, and therefore has nothing to do with a "truly" committed mind.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, andlearn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

That means God the Father knows whom are seeking Him from those that are not, but prefer their evil deeds rather than come to Him to be reproved of them. This is why believing in Him is also a work of God Himself.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

And in your life, how much is really yours? Do you own and control your fleshly appetites? Can you easily fast from food, or sex? Can you turn off the wide-screen god for weeks at a time? Can you live without 'entertainment' for hours on end? Do you own your tongue and control it sufficient to say you've given it to God? Look at your life. How much of what you may say "I've given to God", is actually yours to give.

In many cases, you have to rip away from Satan, or the flesh, those aspects you're so brazenly 'giving to God'. For once again, how can you give to God that which you do not possess?

Once He has enabled us to believe, we hear Him say keep believing in Me for all things, but not every believer hear that because of that religious mindset that they have to do the best they can in following Him when He is asking believers to keep believing in Him & His words for following Him.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.....36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Use the word 'commit' in the place of 'give' and see the similarities.

Problem is, you can't use the word commitment in the place of give to see that same similarity because "commit" means "entrust", and so in that sense, you are giving your trust to Him to do it. Commitment is not giving but declaring that "I will do it." and so basically, telling Jesus that you are not going to give that which you are trusting Him for as you are committed into doing it instead; that you can follow all the teachings of Jesus by doing the best you can in keeping that commitment to follow Jesus.

So Jesus will be waiting to help you whenever you acknowledged that you cannot do it. He has done this for me numerous times as I would go right back to doing the best I can in showing "my appreciation" for helping me, until He helped me to realize that He did not ask a commitment from me or a promise from me to follow Him because He wants me to rely on Him & His promises to me all the time for following Him.

And note also, this matter of being led by the Holy Spirit...if you can't control the flesh (in all the areas concerning the flesh mentioned above) yourself, how can you be truly led of the Spirit?

I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

Alot of believers are using their zeal & with it, their love for the Lord in keeping their commitment to follow Him; and failing, because by that commitment is the knowledge of sin, and by that same commitment is the knowing how sinful we are in that we are not so committed in our flesh we would like to be in being able to keep that commitment in following Him.

This is when believers are to lift their sights higher in seeing that Jesus Christ is for us all the way. He did not ascend by saying, "I have done all that I can. The rest is up to you. Goodbye, and good luck," No. He did not say that. He had said that He would be with us always, therefore our confidence is to rest in Him as He is the power that has saved us and so He is the power for living as His in following Him by that same grace of God & His help.

That is how we are led by the Holy Spirit when we trust the Son of God in us as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

This is what it means to live by faith in Jesus Christ since the Son of God leads us through the Holy Spirit in us to be free in serving the Son as His disciples.

Commitment takes our eyes inward to our flesh in doing the best we can.

Faith takes our eyes to the Son of God in us in helping us to follow Him.

[OBW]

J4M,

Your problem is that you incorrectly assume that anything that is not done purely because it was internally directly by God is of yourself and not Him. That is a false teaching that is not found in the Bible. You have littered your posts with verses that do not actually say what you are asserting — often not even talking about what you are talking about.

To deny himself does not mean to do absolutely nothing. Your nonsensical version of its meaning is a false one probably provided by Lee.

And commit does not simply mean to give it up to someone else or to roll over. It means to subordinate one's own will and to do that of another. As an employee, that includes subordinating part of your will to that of your boss. And when you do that, you are also submitting to the will of God.

"Give it up" is not even a definition for commit. That is yet one more redefinition of a word by false teachers to fool the flock. And it would seem to still be working. The word it commit. It does not imply roll over or give it up. That is simply false.

The Bible is very clear that we are to learn to obey what Christ has commanded. Not to wait for it to fall on us from God.

You really should do more than regurgitate nonsense. You don't actually respond to what I write. You just declare that things I didn't say are incorrect in a way that the Bible does not support.

So where do you get your doctrine if it is not really from the verses you quote? I betting on Nee and Lee. They are both sources of novel redefinitions of words for the purpose of creating doctrine that does not actually exist in the Bible.