Doug Krieger testimony

[aron]

THE YOUNG PEOPLE AND WITNESS LEE

BY

DOUG KRIEGER


We formed teams of young people like a "net" and arranged via permit to take the free speech area at the UCLA campus in West Los Angeles in order to "preach the gospel." There were around 100 of us at the time . . . it was 1971, somewhere during the spring the "young people's coordination" of which I was wholly involved, along with Sal Benoit, Howard Higashi and the ever-pensive, John
So. Along with a number of dedicated sisters in Christ--we knew the time had come. Ned Nasseman was also with us--UCLA would never be the same.

It was amazing--we were at the height of the Viet Nam War--before the Berkeley riots of 1972 when Nixon bombed Haiphong Harbor. Also, it was before the first migration of saints out of Eldon Hall throughout the nation, to take the nation for
Christ and the Church. Yorba Linda, with Bill Freeman, had already decided to take off to Seattle to "start the Church Life." It was the time that the saints in Seal Beach were discovered by me and several others like Doug Hendrickson; and, it was the time that Max Rapaport committed himself fully to Witness Lee and the Church--Max had started the Church in Anaheim--I was with Max at the time.

There was truly an outpouring of the Spirit that day on the campus--no one can deny that--scores found Christ--Howard Higashi and James Barber preached--it was anointed.

I think that the summer of 1970 and 1971 marked the high-water mark of "The Lord's Recovery" - but the seeds of disintegration were already growing in its midst.

The YPC (Young People's Coordination) were sort of a mini-eldership within the
Church in L.A. - it became fertile ground for producing would-be elders - never by design, but that's what happened. W. L. always gave credible support for the Young People and for its YPC.

The seeds of disintegration to which I allude stimmed from a little known meeting held among W.L., myself and Frank DeLuna outside of Eldon Hall--here, Frank shared with W.L. that his family (I will not disclose who) had received a significant inheritance and Frank asked Lee what to do with it. W.L. immediately seized upon the opportunity so extended and suggested that it could be "invested" and thereby spread the work and secure meeting halls, etc.- thus began the debacle known as the Daystar Enterprise and its spurious connection with a little known sister enterprise in the Far East known as "Overseas Christian Stewards" - an enterprise which Sal Benoit later exposed in the infamous "secret tape" heard around the world--a tape later carried into the presence of the IRS to launch an investigation of the enterprise.

Little did Frank and I know that Lee would take Frank's money and the investments of scores of saints and catapoult these investments into Lee's own private financial empire which later grew into the tens of millions of dollars. Thus, when W. L. and son Timothy were "forced to come to America" in the early '60s at the Seattle World's Fair selling Hong Kong suits to pay off growing debts in the Far East--and later encouraged the likes of Paul Border, Billy Moore and myself to sell those crazy suits (which if you pulled on a string sticking out of one, the entire thing came apart--time to laugh here, sad but true)--Lee's "dirty little capitalist secret" would remain an on-going enterprise that some day fabricated not only Daystars but tennis rackets and the most bizarre items--whatever the dumb Americans would buy.

I know I digress here - but one Samuel Chang in 1963 informed me that Lee was the spiritual side of Watchman Nee and that he was the "financial side." During Lee's Daystar enterprise and the stupidity of the "native way" of selling these exceedingly expensive dinosaurs "door to door in rich American neighborhoods" (in order to cut marketing costs) Chang came up with the bizarre idea of natural vitamins and minerals. The Churches, like Boston, were given a front row marketing presentation by Chang himself who set out hundreds of little cups full of this snake oil and attempted both to sell it to the saints and to have the saints market it--man, talk about Kool Aide!

All this is so sad--but I share this to clearly let you know that "mingling" capitalism with Christianity - God with mammon - was at the heart and soul of the L.C. from its commencement--concealed until Lee saw an opportunity to advance his cause and a way to fund his empire and to secure a massive financial base for his family members--even his "charging for the ministry" and the "trainings" was an idea concocted by him and shared with the elders in Washington, D.C. and me in a car on the way to the meeting hall in D.C. - Lee said that smart Christians like so-and-so were doing it and "so should we!" Thus, charging for the ministry became the way of the Local Church of Witness Lee--whereas prior to this time during the early days of the 1970s such a practice was non-existent--but Lee decided to follow the way of Christianity, a Christianity he resented and blamed as the Great Babylon!
And so, getting back to the YPC, etc. - in my last segment I shared how we finally left Berkeley--then the YPC was used by W.L. to destroy the "old order" but once Max and the "prevailing sisters' flow" had secured too much power through this "Red Guard approach" - he knew he had to smash the YPC.

**** ****** and Howard Higashi were altogether effusive in their acclamation of the new revolutionary move blessed by W.L. and orchestrated by Max--indeed, James Barber was told by W.L., under encouragement from Max, to come to Sacramento and APOLOGIZE to Doug Shearer and me. James did--but it was a farce - anyone in their right mind could tell he was doing it for show and told us that some day Max would get his "just due" - James made it clear to us that Max's days were numbered. Amazing, he wanted Doug and me, and knew that Lee was planning to dump Max!

This power struggle climaxed against the old guard at that Berkeley conference--I knew precisely what was happening--why, because the Holy Spirit and my own devastating experience told me what would happen and that I should surely stay away from this foolishness.

What and why the YPC did what it did that Memorial Day Weekend tells more about how manipulative Lee was--latter, in Anaheim, Lee denounced the extreme manner of the Young People and the YPC and that they had "gone too far." Imagine that--so did the Red Guard--but then, capitalism carried the day--both in China and in the L.C.!

When Howard and Mike came to Sacramento to welcome me back to the L.C.--and both were so sincere--I forcefully warned them what was coming upon them and the L.C. Lee was about to make his move. He had successfully dressed down the eldership in L.A. via the tumultuous Memorial Day Weekend when young people, one after another, got up and mocked the "old order"---everything from John Ingales preaching the Tree of Life while wearing "Fruit of the Loom underwear" to burning L.C. banners atop vans and having ridiculous water fights in the meeting--letting off the inner frustration which nigh all of them had experienced in the past--and all egged on by Lee who was plotting to reverse course and devastate "both sides" to show who was boss: Himself!

How God's people could be so deceived - especially American saints - had as much to do with misunderstanding the Chinese culture, as much as it did not understanding their/our own. Spiritual verbiage cleverly manipulated is a sinister tool if placed in the hands of intelligent and yet unscrupulous men or women--it cuts into the very soul and spirit of the unsuspecting and the vulnerable. This was the experience that took place that Memorial Day Weekend--it eventually blew scores of saints out of the L.C. (a mercy in disguise), including my own brother-in-law, **** ******. Mike is now in Oregon serving the Lord with his dear wife, *****, my sister-in-law, along with my other brother-in-laws: ****** ***** and **** *****--all of whom, including their wives (***** and ******) and my dear wife, *******, all plan to gather this Memorial Day Weekend to enjoy each other's fellowship . . . yes, we're all together and still loving and celebrating the unity we have both as a family and as friends - all of us still love our Lord Jesus!

And, yes, I'm still married to the same loving spouse of nigh 40 years--remember, only Christ is worthy of keeping us in love and relationship. I only wish we could have helped more saints find the freedom we found in Christ.

Yes, when I told Howard Higashi and **** ****** I'd only come back to the L.C. if they could provide a white stallion for me upon reentry into Rome--knowing that this outlandish statement would assuredly get back to those who disdained my reappearance in any event--I would oblige their request . . . but how shameful to witness so many sincere believers to undergo such manipulation by someone who one day shall stand before the BEMA, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and be examined for the deeds done in the body, whether they be good or naught!


things got much worse after those of us who initially blew out of the L.C. - why brethren stayed in so long, after knowing many of the things which I discovered were so corrupting - well, I stayed in, hoping against hope that things would improve--and, how could I be so wrong that what appeared to have commenced with such sincerity in Christ could have gone so awry.

Well, let me share just several reasons:

(1) Lee's entire emphasis upon the mingling of the human spirit with the Divine Spirit is erroneous--participation in the Godhead, "partaking of the Divine Nature" is not intrinsic unity, it is entirely one of RELATIONSHIP - and through that relationship the believer, the Body of Christ, reflects the Divine Image. We are NOT CHRIST--we are the Bride of Christ and the "Bride eyes NOT her garments but her dear Bridegrooms face!" The "worship of the Image of the Beast" which is the counterfeit of the Image of Christ (i.e., the Church is the Image of Christ juxtaposed to the Image of the Beast which is the CORPORATE anti-type of the Bride) is assuredly what the Beast demands; however, the "worship of the Image of Christ" is NEVER mentioned in Scripture. The exaltation of the Local Church and "how glorious we are" is naught but the "worship of the IMAGE of the Beast!"

(2) Lee's teaching of the "doctrine of the dirt" is the antithesis of the "true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and reality." PLACE/dirt is NOT the manifestation of the Kingdom of Heaven. Lee's teaching and even Nee's misunderstanding of the practice of the "City-Church" is and became nothing more than an insidious system, far worse than the Catholics or the Jehovah's Witnesses or even the Mormons, in controlling God's people; and at that, for filthy lucre.

(3) Lee's manipulation of eschatology and, in particular, an extension of the pre-tribulational rapture of the Church (i.e., partial rapture) bears within it the seeds of a distortion of the doctrine of the overcomers in the churches and was/is abused by the L.C./LSM (and many of those who have left are still enslaved by this elitist teaching, unfortunately proclaimed by many a well-meaning Plymouth Brethren like Pember and Lang--otherwise, wonderful teachers in Christ). At issue is the final TESTIMONY OF JESUS against the Beast, the "Beast Nation" and Babylon the Great's religious apostasy, commercial hegemony and political oppression. The Beast will arise and make war against the Two Witnesses--I affirm that these TWO WITNESSES are NOT two individuals, but corporate in nature: PROPHETIC ISRAEL and THE OVERCOMING CHURCH - the Two Olive Trees and the Two Lampstands - the Lord's witnesses to the Gentile World Powers and Principalities and Powers in High Places.

Again - thank you for this chance to share with you--again, my experience probably predates most, if not all, those who originally comprised the YPC. May the Lord grant today's young people who have a heart for Christ to be all out for Him--the time is short--and, those who proclaim the gospel without its prophetic power, even denigrating its importance (see my latest article on DESPISE NOT PROPHESIES @ www.the-tribulation-network.com) and stressing the newly embraced "Gospel of the Kingdom of SOCIAL JUSTICE!"--have rejected the offense of the cross, joined the Emergent Church of non-offense, and have tragically joined the parade of the millions who have little concern for the Coming of the Lord . . . and are even told that "prophecy is none of your business!"

May the grace of our Lord increase and abound in you AND may the Spirit of Him Who raised Christ from the dead, reign in Life in all those damaged and devastated by the falsehoods and manipulations of those who have usurped the headship of Christ in the life of the believer . . . Lee's efforts were, unfortunately, replicated in many other movements--hence, you begin to wonder why I am so vociferous a critic of those who manipulate God's people for personal gain and make merchandise of the Word of God or conceal saints from the pending flood, knowing my lot shall receive the greater condemnation, but let it be so . . . I had rather warned and not to have had their blood upon my hands--and yes, I have worked full time since leaving the L.C. and continue to do so--TO GOD BE THE GLORY! Ministry, family, church and work should all be done to the glory of God, not for the aggrandizement of man, even men who acclaim that they are the Oracle of God Himself!

Yours because of Him Who Loves us! Doug Krieger

[aron]

Dear Brother Doug,

… You mentioned IRS investigation because of Sal Benoit's tape. What was the outcome of it? I heard that there was some illegal activity related to Daystar, but it seems there was no penalty from IRS.

God bless you,

KSA

__________________________________________________ _______

Dear KSA -

The IRS involvement and investigation took place at the end of the 1970s. It was commenced as a result of that tape and that tape was involved. The copy of the tape was not given to the IRS by Sal Benoit but by a brother I know who had the tape but who now regrets he did this; although, at times that regret turns to a measure of satisfaction that he did the right thing--it was not I who turned in the tape.

Insofar as the result of the investigation, I am not aware of those results. There were so many who had cause to complain about the financial practices of the Daystar and its incorporation into the financial affairs of the Local Churches. The efforts of the "little bankers" (normally, sundry elders in various churches who were called upon to intervene on Lee's behalf to forestall individuals in asking for the return of the original investments) was another sad day for the churches. Unlike American denominations, most of whom understand SEC (Security and
Exchange Commission) rules and regulations - I do not believe (and this my own subjective evaluation) that the administrators of the L.C.'s understood nor desired to know what the implications of generating funding for a for-profit corporation by the use of membership funds, and, in some instances funds generated via these "little bankers" who solicited such funding and then sought to "forgive the debts."

[aron]

Well it should be possible to corroborate some of this stuff eventually. If some of what Krieger says relates to what actually happened, then that should be enough not to simply dismiss it out of hand, due to his later interests. He might still be a witness to some LC history. Actual witnesses who saw some of this are so scarce today that I wouldn't ignore any of them out of hand, no matter how flakey they may seem to be.

Is anything that DK says independently corroborated somewhere else? Did Samuel Chang, for example, tell anyone else that he was the "financial side" of things, and, try direct-marketing techniques with the Church in Boston? There's a big swath of LC history covered in this testimony, 1962 - 1975.

Originally Posted by Doug Krieger

I know I digress here - but one Samuel Chang in 1963 informed me that Lee was the spiritual side of Watchman Nee and that he was the "financial side." During Lee's Daystar enterprise and the stupidity of the "native way" of selling these exceedingly expensive dinosaurs "door to door in rich American neighborhoods" (in order to cut marketing costs) Chang came up with the bizarre idea of natural vitamins and minerals. The Churches, like Boston, were given a front row marketing presentation by Chang himself who set out hundreds of little cups full of this snake oil and attempted both to sell it to the saints and to have the saints market it--man, talk about Kool Aide!

All this is so sad--but I share this to clearly let you know that "mingling" capitalism with Christianity - God with mammon - was at the heart and soul of the L.C. from its commencement--concealed until Lee saw an opportunity to advance his cause and a way to fund his empire and to secure a massive financial base for his family members--even his "charging for the ministry" and the "trainings" was an idea concocted by him and shared with the elders in Washington, D.C. and me in a car on the way to the meeting hall in D.C. - Lee said that smart Christians like so-and-so were doing it and "so should we!" Thus, charging for the ministry became the way of the Local Church of Witness Lee--whereas prior to this time during the early days of the 1970s such a practice was non-existent--but Lee decided to follow the way of Christianity, a Christianity he resented and blamed as the Great Babylon!

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

Well it should be possible to corroborate some of this stuff eventually. If some of what Krieger says relates to what actually happened, then that should be enough not to simply dismiss it out of hand, due to his later interests. He might still be a witness to some LC history. Actual witnesses who saw some of this are so scarce today that I wouldn't ignore any of them out of hand, no matter how flakey they may seem to be.

Is anything that DK says independently corroborated somewhere else? Did Samuel Chang, for example, tell anyone else that he was the "financial side" of things, and, try direct-marketing techniques with the Church in Boston? There's a big swath of LC history covered in this testimony, 1962 - 1975.

I agree that it's hard to say how credible these accounts are. I am curious though about a lot of these things. I would like to have a better idea of how early on in his ministry WL started different business ventures.

According to Don Rutledge's account, WL was selling suits at the Seattle World fair in 1962. That was the same time as the church in Los Angeles started, so I think it's possible that there were ongoing business dealings on the side all along. From the various sources I've read, there seems to be some indication (a bit unclear) that WL had engaged in various church-involved business ventures in the U.S. before Daystar. There doesn't seem to be much clarity as to what those business ventures were (tennis rackets, suits, vitamins, etc????) and over what time period each took place. I am also curious as to how strongly these business ventures, particularly those before Daystar, were promoted in church meetings.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I agree that it's hard to say how credible these accounts are. I am curious though about a lot of these things. I would like to have a better idea of how early on in his ministry WL started different business ventures.

According to Don Rutledge's account, WL was selling suits at the Seattle World fair in 1962. That was the same time as the church in Los Angeles started, so I think it's possible that there were ongoing business dealings on the side all along. From the various sources I've read, there seems to be some indication (a bit unclear) that WL had engaged in various church-involved business ventures in the U.S. before Daystar. There doesn't seem to be much clarity as to what those business ventures were (tennis rackets, suits, vitamins, etc????) and over what time period each took place. I am also curious as to how strongly these business ventures, particularly those before Daystar, were promoted in church meetings.

As the story goes, Lee had a disastrous business plan go south in Taipei in the mid 50's. Never heard what the plan was, but Lee forced the church to sell some property to pay his debt. This created such a conflict among the saints, that Lee was effectively banished from Taiwan, and thus arrived on our soil. Lee and company eventually spun this into God's "leading."

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by aron

Little did Frank and I know that Lee would take Frank's money and the investments of scores of saints and catapoult these investments into Lee's own private financial empire which later grew into the tens of millions of dollars. Thus, when W. L. and son Timothy were "forced to come to America" in the early '60s at the Seattle World's Fair selling Hong Kong suits to pay off growing debts in the Far East--and later encouraged the likes of Paul Border, Billy Moore and myself to sell those crazy suits (which if you pulled on a string sticking out of one, the entire thing came apart--time to laugh here, sad but true)--Lee's "dirty little capitalist secret" would remain an on-going enterprise that some day fabricated not only Daystars but tennis rackets and the most bizarre items--whatever the dumb Americans would buy.

Wasn't the gold colored uncomfortable chairs another product?

I had heard Witness Lee was a millionaire early as the 1970's. Nothing could substantiate the claim more than an income tax filing.