The Church with No Name?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Dancing

Excellent. Nobody's put that into words that I've heard yet. Some LSM folks that I'm still related to are still so engrossed in this teaching and use it as an excuse for not doing what's right time and time again to the hurt of others. So sad. But after it all I still love them. I can't force it down their throats but I can speak it in love.

Yes, there is a price to pay for telling the truth. But I'd much rather pay that price than the one of my Lord's disapproval.

Thank you, Nell.

Here's an amazing verse on that subject:

17 Don’t hate your brother. Rebuke anyone who sins; don’t let him get away with it, or you will be equally guilty.
Leviticus 19:17 (NIV)

If you don't rebuke a sinning brother, you hate him, and you are as guilty as he is. That's powerful stuff.

Nell

[Dancing]

Originally Posted by Nell

Here's an amazing verse on that subject:

17 Don’t hate your brother. Rebuke anyone who sins; don’t let him get away with it, or you will be equally guilty.
Leviticus 19:17 (NIV)

If you don't rebuke a sinning brother, you hate him, and you are as guilty as he is. That's powerful stuff.

Nell

It takes guts.
But you're right. There it is in black and white. Thanks, Nell!

[awareness]

By Nell:
Don’t hate your brother. Rebuke anyone who sins; don’t let him get away with it, or you will be equally guilty.
Leviticus 19:17 (NIV)

Originally Posted by Dancing

It takes guts.
But you're right. There it is in black and white. Thanks, Nell!

I said there were many and here's another one: I will not stone anybody nor will I go around rebuking others. Again, if by not rebuking I'm guilty, let the smiting begin.

I'm with Jesus on this too. He did not rebuke the unclean. He ate and drank with them. And the Pharisees followed Leviticus and rebuked him for it.

Think of the woman at the well. I think Nell and Dancing would have rebuked her, with something like "go away you whore."

And would have picked up the first stone for the adulterous woman.

So y'all like the rebuking verse in Leviticus, what about all the other old covenant laws in Leviticus? Cherry pickin' anyone?

This desire to rebuke, to the point of digging up a verse to support it, is exacting what I'm talking about when I question the fruits of old covenant Law, or the New Testament as Law, for that matter.

I'm very glad I no longer live with a rebuker, like when growing up. My mother would rebuke my uncles and throw them out of her house for having a beer before coming over, and would continue to rebuke them as they went out the door. It was hateful, and completely void of the forgiveness of Christ.

Instead of going around rebuking others, why not go around forgiving others? Like Jesus.

[Dancing]

Originally Posted by awareness

By Nell:

Think of the woman at the well. I think Nell and Dancing would have rebuked her, with something like "go away you whore."

And would have picked up the first stone for the adulterous woman.

Not at all, awareness. I would have been the first to have embraced her. I'll bet Nell would too.

It's not the weak and sinful who are in such a serious condition, it's those who reject His Word that are in most serious danger. His top word is to love. But even He can only love on those who reject His Word so long. His Word is all our salvation! If we reject that we cut ourselves off from salvation!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

By Nell:
Don’t hate your brother. Rebuke anyone who sins; don’t let him get away with it, or you will be equally guilty.
Leviticus 19:17 (NIV)

I said there were many and here's another one: I will not stone anybody nor will I go around rebuking others. Again, if by not rebuking I'm guilty, let the smiting begin.
I'm with Jesus on this too. He did not rebuke the unclean. He ate and drank with them. And the Pharisees followed Leviticus and rebuked him for it.
Think of the woman at the well. I think Nell and Dancing would have rebuked her, with something like "go away you whore."
And would have picked up the first stone for the adulterous woman.
So y'all like the rebuking verse in Leviticus, what about all the other old covenant laws in Leviticus? Cherry pickin' anyone?
This desire to rebuke, to the point of digging up a verse to support it, is exacting what I'm talking about when I question the fruits of old covenant Law, or the New Testament as Law, for that matter.
I'm very glad I no longer live with a rebuker, like when growing up. My mother would rebuke my uncles and throw them out of her house for having a beer before coming over, and would continue to rebuke them as they went out the door. It was hateful, and completely void of the forgiveness of Christ.
Instead of going around rebuking others, why not go around forgiving others? Like Jesus.

Hummm...I'm feeling a bit rebuked about now. How 'bout you Dancing? Tell me awareness, are you cherry pickin' or am I?

Jesus forgave those who were clean. Forgiveness follows confession, and repentance.

As we walk with Jesus, talk with Him, pray, love the brothers, obey His voice, obey his commandments, He will direct our paths. Rebuking a sinning brother is not a bad thing. It's scriptural and purposeful. If the Lord tells you to speak such a word, you need to obey Him. It's hard, though, to say such a word if you haven't dealt with your own heart, forgiven the sinning brother. It's never easy, and you will likely be misunderstood. People may turn on you and blame you. People may embrace the sinning brother and condemn you for speaking the truth...condemn you for obeying the Lord. You still have to obey.

Here are some more powerful verses about speaking the truth in love and its purpose or goal:

1 Corinthians 5:5 ...deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

So, awareness, I guess you forgave your Mom?

Nell

[Nell]

“Cheap grace means grace sold on the market like cheapjacks' wares. The sacraments, the forgiveness of sin, and the consolations of religion are thrown away at cut prices. Grace is represented as the Church's inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost! The essence of grace, we suppose, is that the account has been paid in advance; and, because it has been paid, everything can be had for nothing. Since the cost was infinite, the possibilities of using and spending it are infinite. What would grace be if it were not cheap?...

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.

Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him.

Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock.

Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: "ye were bought at a price," and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

[Dancing]

Originally Posted by Nell

“Cheap grace means grace sold on the market like cheapjacks' wares. The sacraments, the forgiveness of sin, and the consolations of religion are thrown away at cut prices. Grace is represented as the Church's inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost! The essence of grace, we suppose, is that the account has been paid in advance; and, because it has been paid, everything can be had for nothing. Since the cost was infinite, the possibilities of using and spending it are infinite. What would grace be if it were not cheap?...

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.

Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him.

Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock.

Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: "ye were bought at a price," and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

What a warning to us! This was spoken in Germany, around or right at the time of the Nazi ascension to power. The church was asleep because of this cheap grace! And the Jew hatred spread like a malicious poison. The rest is a most regrettable history!

My point here is that if we don't take discipleship seriously we very easily become the next tool in Satan's hands to persecute those whom God loves and died for. We become a tool of hatred, not love. And we don't perceive it because we hate His law and won't humble ourselves to it.

Lovers of cheap grace hate God's law.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Dancing

My point here is that if we don't take discipleship seriously we very easily become the next tool in Satan's hands to persecute those whom God loves and died for. We become a tool of hatred, not love. And we don't perceive it because we hate His law and won't humble ourselves to it.

Back atchya sister.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

Rebuking a sinning brother is not a bad thing.

But Nell we're all sinners. So I guess you are pretty busy rebuking sinners. You'll never keep up. You'll spend your life rebuking others.

Originally Posted by Nell

So, awareness, I guess you forgave your Mom?

Yes, she was my mother. But forgiving doesn't erase all the damage she did to others by holding to her Law. We have to love our mothers, even if they're Bible crazy.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

... So I guess you are pretty busy rebuking sinners.

Nope.

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes, she was my mother. But forgiving doesn't erase all the damage she did to others by holding to her Law. We have to love our mothers, even if they're Bible crazy.

So we're on the same page.

Nell

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Me

... So I guess you are pretty busy rebuking sinners.

Originally Posted by Nell, in response

Nope.

Truth is Nell, since we're all sinners, if we're gonna rebuke, we should be busy rebuking our self.

So we're on the same page.
Nell

Cool. How'd that happen? I don't know. But I like it.

[Dancing]

Originally Posted by Nell

Hummm...I'm feeling a bit rebuked about now. How 'bout you Dancing? Tell me awareness, are you cherry pickin' or am I?

Jesus forgave those who were clean. Forgiveness follows confession, and repentance.

As we walk with Jesus, talk with Him, pray, love the brothers, obey His voice, obey his commandments, He will direct our paths. Rebuking a sinning brother is not a bad thing. It's scriptural and purposeful. If the Lord tells you to speak such a word, you need to obey Him. It's hard, though, to say such a word if you haven't dealt with your own heart, forgiven the sinning brother. It's never easy, and you will likely be misunderstood. People may turn on you and blame you. People may embrace the sinning brother and condemn you for speaking the truth...condemn you for obeying the Lord. You still have to obey.

Here are some more powerful verses about speaking the truth in love and its purpose or goal:

1 Corinthians 5:5 ...deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

So, awareness, I guess you forgave your Mom?

Nell

Truth spoken in love....Thank you.

And this explains why I love the law. I can see God's aspirations for ME. I can receive His discipline AND GRACE as I confess my shortages.

"Oh how I LOVE Thy law!" This is how we're perfected