My Views and Stance on The Recovery

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Truth

I am back on this forum because I need help. It looks like things have changed for me. Previously I introduced myself as one who must remain in local church where I am though I didn't agree with most of its practice. I think now is the time. The Lord is leading me out. It won't be easy; it will be a lonely route. I don't know where to go.

I wished I can write about my situation and history (see past posts in this thread) in more detail but I must remain anonymous for I fear persecution. It is sad that anyone who speaks negatively in the LC might be branded a rebel; this is what I fear. I don't want to be labeled as such. I will write more of my thoughts in a little while...

A brother I'm close with, and his wife, just quietly walked out. No big deal.

[Truth]

Originally Posted by awareness

A brother I'm close with, and his wife, just quietly walked out. No big deal.

Thanks awareness. This works if you don't have any close friends/connections in the LC. I have a few, and more than a few. There is no way I can just step out quietly without being noticed. I grew up in this and have given my life to this. I was one of those die-hard ministry supporters myself. None can imagine me leaving. It would come as a big shock.

How would I explain all this to them without lying? If I brought up the history of the LC it would seriously hurt some and maybe even ruin their lives. I have friends who have given their entire life and careers to the LC. Some of these are true friends. I know that even when I leave, we will stay in touch; however, this would become a huge wall in our relationship.

I feel stuck and imprisoned right now.

Originally Posted by Truth

How would I explain all this to them without lying? If I brought up the history of the LC it would seriously hurt some and maybe even ruin their lives. I have friends who have given their entire life and careers to the LC. Some of these are true friends. I know that even when I leave, we will stay in touch; however, this would become a huge wall in our relationship.

"Obey the Lord, and leave all the consequences to Him." - Charles Stanley

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Truth

Thanks awareness. This works if you don't have any close friends/connections in the LC. I have a few, and more than a few. There is no way I can just step out quietly without being noticed. I grew up in this and have given my life to this. I was one of those die-hard ministry supporters myself. None can imagine me leaving. It would come as a big shock.

How would I explain all this to them without lying? If I brought up the history of the LC it would seriously hurt some and maybe even ruin their lives. I have friends who have given their entire life and careers to the LC. Some of these are true friends. I know that even when I leave, we will stay in touch; however, this would become a huge wall in our relationship.

I feel stuck and imprisoned right now.

All my best friends are exLCers. They stayed in when I got the boot. I didn't just quietly walk away. I caused a storm ... a really big storm ... a frantic meeting fist pumping kind of storm.

My friends now considered me a serpent back then, as the lead elder told them. Eventually, years later they got the boot too.

So my exit wasn't easy. It broke my wife and I down. We cried for days and felt miserably lost.

But we got over it. Especially when an elder blatantly ripped us off. We took that as a confirmation that we did the right thing by standing our ground and leaving.

But after leaving the LC support group our marriage failed, as did the marriage of all my present exLCer friends, including the bro and his wife that quietly walked out.

It helped, tho, that both walked out together. Not everyone can just quietly walk away like them.

So my heart and prayers are with you bro. May God be with you. It's not going to be easy. But internally you're already gone.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truth

Thanks awareness. This works if you don't have any close friends/connections in the LC. I have a few, and more than a few. There is no way I can just step out quietly without being noticed. I grew up in this and have given my life to this. I was one of those die-hard ministry supporters myself. None can imagine me leaving. It would come as a big shock.

How would I explain all this to them without lying? If I brought up the history of the LC it would seriously hurt some and maybe even ruin their lives. I have friends who have given their entire life and careers to the LC. Some of these are true friends. I know that even when I leave, we will stay in touch; however, this would become a huge wall in our relationship.

I feel stuck and imprisoned right now.

Most of the posters here were once die-hard ministry supporters too. I was there 30 years.

Truth, if the Lord is leading you out, then you only need to say to family and friends that you are struggling to follow the Lord. Ask the Lord what you should say, and to whom. Don't put the blame on them, and they will be more apt to listen.

If you have become disgusted with the LC system, perhaps because of what you have read or experienced first hand, then you have to consider and re-consider. All churches are flawed; none are perfect. Does what you find so obnoxious in the LRC outweigh friendships and Christian bonds?

Granted things may have been a little easier for me to leave. All the LC's in the region were dividing due to the quarantine of TC. Even before I left I had trouble with the HWMR, but I loved to labor in the Word and speak for the Lord. So I prayed over the verses from the HWMR, and found the anointing there to share with the church. I do miss that part of the churchlife.

The church is really those around you with the Lord in your midst. LSM and its programs are not the church, and may not even be helping the church. You have no obligation to fulfill all of their demands. One of the worst teachings of LSM is to change the scripture "many members but one body" (I Cor 12.20) into "many LC's but one body," which is not the body of Christ at all, but their loyal membership.

The Lord had little good to say to some of the churches in Revelations 2-3, yet He told none of those members to leave, rather to stay and overcome, and He would bless them.

Pray the Lord would make it clear to you what to do and say.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Lord had little good to say to some of the churches in Revelations 2-3, yet He told none of those members to leave, rather to stay and overcome, and He would bless them.

Originally Posted by anon former member

"Obey the Lord, and leave all the consequences to Him." - Charles Stanley

Obedience to the Lord will always surprise you. How can you tell, ahead of time, whether He will say, "Get out of her, my people", or "Each one, in what he was called, in this let him remain"? (Rev 18:4/Jer 51:45, vs. 1 Cor 7)

That is why I say that the the Bible is open before you. Are you open before God? Don't come into God's word with your concepts, finding portions to support yourself and ignoring what isn't convenient. Let the revelation push away your ideas and your comfort. Forget your hard-won vision of how things are, and should be. God led you on this path for a reason. God doesn't make mistakes. Don't tell God under what circumstances you are prepared to worship, follow, and obey Him.

That's how we got saved in the first place. We were willing to let go of what we thought was known, and embrace the unknown. Why suddenly require certitude to follow and obey?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Obedience to the Lord will always surprise you

Joh 10:3 ... the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

[Truth]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Does what you find so obnoxious in the LRC outweigh friendships and Christian bonds?

I think you have touched on one of the most important question for me. Is it worth leaving? Because it would include leaving some friends, or at least some parts of our friendship. Yet, I need to leave because I need some friends who see things differently (spiritually). With all my friends in the LC, I still feel lonely because I cannot express my concerns regarding the teachings and leadership of the LC's. If you cannot speak the truth with friends, how much are they really your friends? Yet they are my friends. We are close in so many other ways, but not this (regarding the LC). And this is not because they have changed, but I have changed. See my dilemma? Feels uncomfortable to be in this state of mind.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Truth

I think you have touched on one of the most important question for me. Is it worth leaving? Because it would include leaving some friends, or at least some parts of our friendship. Yet, I need to leave because I need some friends who see things differently (spiritually). With all my friends in the LC, I still feel lonely because I cannot express my concerns regarding the teachings and leadership of the LC's. If you cannot speak the truth with friends, how much are they really your friends? Yet they are my friends. We are close in so many other ways, but not this (regarding the LC).

There is a dilemma in some ways. You want to remain in good standing with them yet at the same time you don't want to be accused of trying to "poison" them. I wouldn't speak anything unsolicited. Perhaps they should need to inquire of you? Many brothers and sisters have left the local church fellowship, yet the questions are not asked why?

Personally I have family friends still in the local churhes and others who have left the local churches. Those who left, I didn't even know when it happened until I asked and why they left. Even more these family friends still remain friends with one another. That to me indicates their friendship is not predicated on fellowship with the local churches but on being fellow members of the Body.

[Truth]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's called cognitive dissonance<-click.

Good word! That's exactly how I feel.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truth

I think you have touched on one of the most important question for me. Is it worth leaving? Because it would include leaving some friends, or at least some parts of our friendship. Yet, I need to leave because I need some friends who see things differently (spiritually). With all my friends in the LC, I still feel lonely because I cannot express my concerns regarding the teachings and leadership of the LC's. If you cannot speak the truth with friends, how much are they really your friends? Yet they are my friends. We are close in so many other ways, but not this (regarding the LC). And this is not because they have changed, but I have changed. See my dilemma? Feels uncomfortable to be in this state of mind.

I encourage you to seek other friends, especially Christian friends. Perhaps some one in your life has the wisdom to counsel you with his friendship. Not every friend can be every thing you need. The body of Christ is far bigger than the LC's would have you believe. The exclusive teachings in the LRC instruct us to make "Christ and the church" our whole life. This is wrong. It is far better to have a wide diversity of healthy friends, both in and out of the LC. Please take it from me -- when it comes to personal and family counseling, the LRC fails dismally.

[Truth]

Originally Posted by Ohio

]Not every friend can be every thing you need. The body of Christ is far bigger than the LC's would have you believe.

You are right. I should not feel guilty that I cannot speak with my LC friends in this matter (LC history, teachings, and practices). We have multiple friends. Each friend supports us and meets our need differently. I guess it is okay that my LC friends don't see the LC organization for what it is. It is just that sometimes I feel hypocritical around them. I "look" like I agree with and support the LCs when i really don't.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Truth

You are right. I should not feel guilty that I cannot speak with my LC friends in this matter (LC history, teachings, and practices). We have multiple friends. Each friend supports us and meets our need differently. I guess it is okay that my LC friends don't see the LC organization for what it is. It is just that sometimes I feel hypocritical around them. I "look" like I agree with and support the LCs when i really don't.

At some level, this is not a problem. But be careful not to imply that you agree with what you cannot agree with.

And there should be plenty at the individual level that we can agree with, as long as they don't want to start into those special doctrines of the LRC. You know the ones. Ground. Christianity is Babylon. The RCC is the Great Harlot. "God's Economy" means you ignore James and half of the Psalms, and dismiss the obvious meaning of any kind of verse that suggests you should be righteous and obedient. If they bring those up, I find nothing to do but to politely say that I cannot find that to be a rational understanding of the passage in question.

[OBW]

I would say that the best thing to do is to leave quietly. Not necessarily without anyone noticing, but quietly. We did and got only one call. Rest of the family (dad, mom, brother and sister) never discussed it with us (until many years later).

What was happening, though, was that we were beginning to be sporadic in the meetings anyway, so when it became 4 in a row rather than only one or two, it went somewhat undetected. We had no knowledge of the things that would have driven me out more rapidly. But after these 8+ years on these forums, I think I would still have been best off to leave quietly.

Then if some really want to know and are willing to have that discussion, tell them that there are specific things that you have discovered that cannot be written-off as gossip, or whitewashed as "something in the past." Give no more details. Just find out if they are willing to talk further or just let it go.

If they want to go forward with a discussion, don't unload everything you've ever heard in a non-stop soliloquy. Guaranteed to drive them off or get their guard up.

While we sort of did a little of that about 19 years after leaving, I said nothing more for a couple of years, then began to throw out some of the things I had been reading in scripture that I just could not get to align with Lee's teachings. The whole "last Adam became" bit. Note that the passage in 1 Cor 3 about wood, hay, and stubble was not talking about the Corinthian believers, but the teachers (Paul, Peter, Apollos, etc.) that they were fighting over. Or something else like that. Or mention that John Ingalls was seriously slandered in a publication of the LSM that Lee claims to have checked out thoroughly before he wrote it. And that Philip Lee was caught on multiple occasions in various compromising situations with married sisters in his office, yet his father continued to keep him in charge of the LSM and even in a position to direct how local churches operated — at least to some extent. (And that the reason John I is gone was that he attempted to excommunicate Philip Lee over it.)

Pick one or two. Not everything. Not all at once. Don't get heated about it.

Don't throw the book at them.

But suggest that they try to actually read the verses that are being taught and see if they really say what Lee says they do.

And be honest that you feel that you are following the Lord in the matter and that this is more important than arguing about the problems that may or may not exist in the LRC.

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by Truth

I think you have touched on one of the most important question for me. Is it worth leaving? Because it would include leaving some friends, or at least some parts of our friendship. Yet, I need to leave because I need some friends who see things differently (spiritually). With all my friends in the LC, I still feel lonely because I cannot express my concerns regarding the teachings and leadership of the LC's. If you cannot speak the truth with friends, how much are they really your friends? Yet they are my friends. We are close in so many other ways, but not this (regarding the LC). And this is not because they have changed, but I have changed. See my dilemma? Feels uncomfortable to be in this state of mind.

I am still in the LC, and I have had the same questions you're having now. Luckily for me, there are some here that I can speak with, some that even share certain reservations (to put it nicely). I think this type people exists in almost every LC. Seek them out. Maybe you already know them.

If my family and I leave I know I won't lose any friends. My parents and siblings won't turn their backs on me though they'll most likely stay.

All the advice here is perfect for someone. It's up to you to choose which piece is perfect for you and your family. Prayer. That's the answer. That and what you're doing, reaching out to find others in a similar situation.

If the friends you have in the LC are really your friends and truly believers, they will understand...though maybe only eventually. Your moving on may encourage others to do the same. It may encourage others to question why they're there. You never know how other people are going to respond.

[Truth]

Thank you all for your advice. It has been very helpful and much appreciated. It seems like leaving the LC quietly and slowly is the best way to go. I have already not been to Sunday morning meetings for more than a month now. No one has noticed only because I am in a situation that provides a really good excuse for not being able to meet. I think once I stop meeting altogether though, saints will start to notice and ask questions. At that time, I will need to let the Holy Spirit lead my speaking.


My three primary reasons for leaving:

Even though I disagree with some of the major practices and theologies in the Lord, that is not my reason for breaking the tie. And as much as I find the history of the LC disgusting, neither is that the cause for wanting to leave (since history is history).

1) I sense that there is not much blessing from the Holy Spirit on the LC as a whole (I'm not talking about individuals in the LC). I need to be in a new place where I can receive new speaking and new revelation.
2) The LC is full of hypocrisy as an organization: the double standards trouble me tremendously.
3) I don't want my children to grow up in this kind of environment

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Truth

Thank you all for your advice. It has been very helpful and much appreciated. It seems like leaving the LC quietly and slowly is the best way to go. I have already not been to Sunday morning meetings for more than a month now. No one has noticed only because I am in a situation that provides a really good excuse for not being able to meet. I think once I stop meeting altogether though, saints will start to notice and ask questions. At that time, I will need to let the Holy Spirit lead my speaking.


My three primary reasons for leaving:

Even though I disagree with some of the major practices and theologies in the Lord, that is not my reason for breaking the tie. And as much as I find the history of the LC disgusting, neither is that the cause for wanting to leave (since history is history).

1) I sense that there is not much blessing from the Holy Spirit on the LC as a whole (I'm not talking about individuals in the LC). I need to be in a new place where I can receive new speaking and new revelation.
2) The LC is full of hypocrisy as an organization: the double standards trouble me tremendously.
3) I don't want my children to grow up in this kind of environment

Hi all,
Haven't been around in ages...but decided to play peek a boo w/y'all...
WoW... some interesting threads...and a handful of newcomers seeking to leave the LC bondage!!

Congrats to everyone wanting to leave and drumming up the courage to take steps in leaving.

Everyone here who is a former LCr is a JEWEL in Christ's Crown....especially AWARENESS !! He's the least religious of the bunch!!

The only addition I would like to make to this thread...is there is not much of God's LOVE left in the LC. As a WHOLE, No Love, No Anointing, No Blessing. But there are individual saints in the LC who ARE filled with God's Love, Anointing and are a blessing to others.

So while obeying is very good... it is mucho better when it is anointed with LOVE and GOD in US = LOVE for GOD is LOVE.

So much LOVE and Blessings to you guys! :-) (too bad there is not a heart smilie..so the SON smiling will have to do! I like that He's wearing shades...

Carol

[aron]

Originally Posted by Truth

I will need to let the Holy Spirit lead my speaking.

It is easy to point out the splinter in the other person's eye. If you can see all that is wrong in the LC system, and you eagerly point that out to "help them", you may be missing a beam in your own.

So let God be the Judge of all. If the Holy Spirit guides your speaking it will be a blessing and not a curse to those who hear. Everyone will profit including yourself.

Originally Posted by Truth

My three primary reasons for leaving:

3) I don't want my children to grow up in this kind of environment

If you are not yet married obviously it would be better for you not to get further entangled in this system. Then your family will have to deal with the effects of your entanglement.

Keep your eyes on the Son of God. He will take you someplace marvelous. Never let go of your faith.

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by Truth

I think you have touched on one of the most important question for me. Is it worth leaving? Because it would include leaving some friends, or at least some parts of our friendship. Yet, I need to leave because I need some friends who see things differently (spiritually). With all my friends in the LC, I still feel lonely because I cannot express my concerns regarding the teachings and leadership of the LC's. If you cannot speak the truth with friends, how much are they really your friends? Yet they are my friends. We are close in so many other ways, but not this (regarding the LC). And this is not because they have changed, but I have changed. See my dilemma? Feels uncomfortable to be in this state of mind.

It’s hard for me to add something valuable after the brothers’ thoughtful and inspiring posts. But I will still share my opinion.

Truth, you have two choices: to follow Lee or Christ. If you want to follow Christ, it takes faith, courage, and sacrifice. Do you need to sacrifice your friendship? Well, maybe, IF your friends turn away from you. But then ask yourself, “Are they really my friends?” After all, who is more important for you: Christ or your friends? Who do you want to stick to?

If you care about your friends, you want them to know them the truth too. You want them to follow Christ, not blind teachers leading the blind. It’s your responsibility as a friend. When you leave the LC, it can be a starting point for them, in their spiritual journey from Lee to Christ. You can fellowship with your friends, give them some food for mind, and help them to realize the truth. It's your duty towards them. Be yourself. Be frank. Fight for your friends and fight for the truth. Stay/be their friend even if they forget your phone number. Do what you can for them and trust in the Lord.

As Christians, we must be always ready to appear before Christ. Therefore, we should live our lives as though Christ were coming the next minute. What if you see Christ in a moment? What will you tell Him? Have you kept your faith? Have you been faithful to Him, or someone or something else? Will you be able to explain the Lord all your pros and cons, or will your arguments suddenly mean nothing? Have you really valued Christ more than anything else?.. “Christ is not valued at all, unless He is valued above all.” (Augustine)

May the Lord grant you wisdom, courage, and strength. And may His peace be upon you.

Many blessings.