The Jezebel spirit in the LSM

[OBW]

Is there any verse in which the term "Jezebel spirit" is used? I know this may seem to run counter to my comment on the creation of the word "excommunication" which is not found in the scripture, but is there value to trying to pin down a defined kind of "spirit" that is not even mentioned in that way in the scripture?

Not saying that there are not characteristics that could look like the actions and ways of the historical Jezebel. But does labeling certain kinds of error or evil in this manner make it anything other than what it actually is as described? Does distilling it down to two words, "Jezebel spirit," make it any worse or any clearer?

It can't be any worse than it actually is. Either it is the evil that is seen or it is not. And it cannot be any clearer than what it actually is. Either the error/evil/whatever is seen for what it is or it is not. Giving it this label does not better define it. It is not made clearer by adding a term that is nowhere defined or commonly understood.

And some guy with a web site does not a meaningful definition make. In fact, his own words make the meaning virtually useless.

There is a variety of opinions about what constitutes a Jezebel spirit, everything from sexual looseness in a woman to the teaching of false doctrine—by a man or a woman. The Bible does not mention a Jezebel spirit, although it has plenty to say about Jezebel herself.

The first sentence is revealing. "There is a variety of opinions. . . ." Then the second sentence just nails it: "The Bible does not mention a Jezebel spirit . . . ."

Perhaps the best way to define the Jezebel spirit is to say it characterizes anyone who acts in the same manner as Jezebel did, engaging in immorality, idolatry, false teaching and unrepentant sin

This one really sets it in perspective. It is almost entirely about wanton sinner who are pushers of religion that is not of God.

Don't get caught up on the word "religion." The point is not "religion," but "not of God." In fact, two of the most notable things about Jezebel are:

1. She was not a Hebrew of any kind. She was from Tyre/Sidon, not Judea or Israel. And she was a priest of a pagan religion/cult — Baal.
2. She was not representative of anything Jewish or Christian. She does not represent or typify any aspect of Christianity or Christian experience, rather of those opposed to it.

Let's face it. Non-Christians are just that, non-Christians. I don't need a label for them. Not even antichrist. (Not saying there is no Antichrist.) I sure don't need something called Jezebel spirit to describe them. It tends to squash the "love your neighbor" thing in me.

And I don't see that there is a valid transference of that kind of description to believers. Even the reference in Revelation does not declare the "Jezebel" to be a believer. Just one who is teaching wrongly or leading the faithful astray.

I think Paul said the same thing in different ways. He said to refuse to listen to certain kinds of teachers. He said to tell them to stop. He did not say to define them and label them. Even the sinful one in 1 Corinthians (who got excommunicated) was not labeled in such a way.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by OBW

Is there any verse in which the term "Jezebel spirit" is used? I know this may seem to run counter to my comment on the creation of the word "excommunication" which is not found in the scripture, but is there value to trying to pin down a defined kind of "spirit" that is not even mentioned in that way in the scripture?

Revelation 2:20 seems to suggest that there is an entity behind Jezebel who has survived the Jezebel we know from Elijah's time and has persisted in the spiritual realm throughout church history to attack Christians, namely the saints in the Church in Thyatira.

Revelation 2:20
But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Here's my personal experienced with named spirits:

One time I went somewhere to meet up with my wife where I'd also end up preaching the gospel to a few homeless, though I didn't know it at the time (it kinda just happened).

As I was on my way a man drove up next to me, rolled down his window and kept swearing and cussing at me because he had to go around me as I pulled into the left turn lane for like one second. I told him I was profusely sorry because it's never worth it to escalate a road rage situation, and I've become so detached to this world that I just don't care to argue or fight about these things. But he just continued to swear and cuss at me.

Later on I realized that Satan was trying to get me to respond in anger so that I would lose my anointing preventing me from being moved to share the gospel with a few homeless (one of them responded really well, and he thought that God had sent me to him perhaps in response to his prayers).

Another instance was I prayed once that God would give me the opportunity to share the gospel with a Jewish man. It was just a short prayer but God answered it when I didn't expect him to. To keep the story short, eventually I found myself with a Jewish man sitting next to me in my car- ASKING ME ABOUT GOD! (I'm quite shy IRL except when it comes to talking about God so I have zero Jewish friends, yet God arranged this circumstance without any of my effort. I understand when scripture says God prepared good works for us and we should walk in them. Many times I feel like an actor in this huge movie of his that God is orchestrating and all I have to do is to look for the cues where he wants me to step in, which we do by following the Holy Spirit. That's why we can experience God's rest while also working for his kingdom. )

I shared my faith with him and answered his questions about Christianity. Because I can't multitask I also missed a few exits and a 30 minute ride turned into an hour. At the end I had an crying baby and a very angry wife. I was perplexed at my spouse's anger because it was *really* severe. But I didn't understand at that time why.

I also had another moment recently where I preached to my wife's aunt in the car. I can't speak cantonese so I had to have her translate. During one of the translations I got impatient and asked my wife what she was saying because she was spending almost a minute on a one liner I gave (I wanted to move on to the next point quickly). She got really mad at me and I realized I had made a mistake and profusely apologized, embarrassed about the testimony we were giving to her unbelieving aunt. Eventually it all worked out though But it was really weird that of all the times we got angry that day it happened during the sharing of the gospel.

One day I was reading Ephesians 4 and I meditated on such experiences I had while gospel preaching. Then I asked God to name the spirit that seemed to always attack me. Right after I asked this I came across verse 26-27:

Ephesians 4:26-27
Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil.

I believe God was telling me that the spirit of anger was attacking me. So now I know to take authority over this spirit and bind it in the name of Jesus before I share the gospel.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by OBW

Is there any verse in which the term "Jezebel spirit" is used? I know this may seem to run counter to my comment on the creation of the word "excommunication" which is not found in the scripture, but is there value to trying to pin down a defined kind of "spirit" that is not even mentioned in that way in the scripture?

Not saying that there are not characteristics that could look like the actions and ways of the historical Jezebel. But does labeling certain kinds of error or evil in this manner make it anything other than what it actually is as described? Does distilling it down to two words, "Jezebel spirit," make it any worse or any clearer?

It can't be any worse than it actually is. Either it is the evil that is seen or it is not.

The long & short of it :
Jezebel was an evil, controlling, woman who practiced witchcraft. Ahab's mistake was marrying a pagan.

She suffered a horrid death which I'm sure you know.

From what I have read, evil controlling demonic influences are called entities or evil spirits. Demons exist but for the majority of people, we (thankfully) never see them. However, we can feel their presence.

I will give you an example, a personal experience I once had. One day I went window shopping in a quaint little neighborhood town. I stopped to admire the jewelry & scarves that were being displayed. So I decided to walk in and take a look around. The store keeper was not around, probably in the back but I did not need a clerk anyway.

As I was looking at the earrings & necklaces, I suddenly felt a very heavy unsettling presence. I started looking around the store from where I was standing. Within seconds I saw witchcraft books, tarot cards, incense & evil dragon pictures & statues.

I walked out the store & sensing I was dirty, I 'dusted' myself off and asked the Lord Jesus to cleanse me in His Blood.

What I felt was a 'spirit'. An evil entity. A demon. I had to look around to find it. It wanted to get on me not in me.


Bringing it closer to home, in the 70s, when we were youngsters and came into the LC, remember how we 'talked' the same? How when we stood up, many would tip-toe back & forth, clenching their fists as they 'testified'?

Sure we were parroting one another...but that 'spirit' was jumping from one person to another. Remember how 'new ones' fresh from the street did not look, talk or act like us but after a couple of months if that long, they picked up on the lingo, their dress attire changed, and they became an official LCr. It wasn't evil in the beginning. But look how screwed up the LC people have become as a whole.

Good parents watch their children's friends. They do not want their children to be around any kid who is going to be a bad influence. What makes a child be influenced by another child? A spirit.

These types of influences, be it in the LC, or church organization, etc.. have a name: transfer of spirits. Not all transfer of spirits are bad. Hanging out with people who are a positive influence on us both spiritual, mental & emotional is a good thing. That is why the scriptures tell us not to be "unequally yoked".

The reason God did not want the Israelites to marry or mix with the Amelikites or Amorites, etc.. is because they worshipped very evil idols. They were evil people. They often killed to sacrifice their own children.

There was a lot of witchcraft, idolotry, sexual immorality etc..
When you get a chance, revisit 1 & 2 Samuel & 1 & 2 kings.

So much for the long & short of it all.

Blessings,
Carol

[countmeworthy]

More on the Jezebel Spirit. Here is an explanation that might be useful & helpful. Hope it gives a better understanding:

The Spirit of Jezebel By Jon Hamilton

(taken from the book "The Nature Of Our Enemy")

In the book of Revelation, the Lord speaks to the church at Thyatira

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols." (Rev 2:20)

At first glance we might ask "What? Jezebel? Didn’t she die back in Second Kings? How can Jezebel be threatening the church in Asia?"

Obviously, the literal person of Jezebel was not present in Thyatira. The reference is a prophetic parallel. Just as John the Baptist was "Elijah" because he came in the spirit and power of Elijah, this person or influence in Thyatira was under the spiritual control of the same demonic influences that controlled Jezebel of old.

Thus, there is a type of demonic influence in society and the church that can rightly be called by the name Jezebel.

This spirit obviously existed long before Queen Jezebel, but she was so totally controlled by its nature that she has become its namesake. In scripture, Herodias is also a type of this force. As Jezebel opposed Elijah, so Herodias opposed John the Baptist. A third example is found here in Revelation 2:20

Queen Jezebel

Jezebel, the Biblical character, first appears in First Kings 16, when she marries Ahab, king of Israel. Jezebel was the daughter of Ethbaal, the king and high priest of the Baal worshipping Sidonians. Baal worship was closely associated with obsessive sensuality and often involved sex acts. Jezebel, as a daughter of this perverse kingdom, was raised in an atmosphere where sex was a path to power and influence.

Ahab, King of Israel, was completely subdued and dominated by Jezebel. Jezebel then introduced the worship of Ashtoroth to Israel. This goddess, represented in Canaanite culture by the moon, was a power-hungry goddess of love and sensuality. Priestess-prostitutes filled her shrines and serviced her worshippers. The lure of these legal, readily available erotic encounters was more than the men of Israel would resist. By Jezebel’s influence, 10 million Israelites left the worship of God for Baal and Ashtoroth. Only 7000 people in the entire nation were not swayed by her control.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Jon Hamilton

Obviously, the literal person of Jezebel was not present in Thyatira. The reference is a prophetic parallel. Just as John the Baptist was "Elijah" because he came in the spirit and power of Elijah, this person or influence in Thyatira was under the spiritual control of the same demonic influences that controlled Jezebel of old.

This explanation of Jezebel in Revelation strikes me as a stretch too far to swallow. The mostly likely explanation is that this was a complete different Jezebel.

The reason this is a stretch, and bothersome to me, is that Hamilton's conjecture presupposes a spirit that gets passed on down the line, a thousand years later. Or maybe a eternal Jezebel spirit flitting and flighting around, jumping into people, all over the place, from generation to generation.

Moreover, if such a spirit of Jezebel is entering into and possessing people, how can God hold the possessed accountable at the judgment seat? After all it's Jezebel doing the bad things. The possessed person is being victimized by a spirit much more powerful than the possessed person could ever dream of being.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by awareness

This explanation of Jezebel in Revelation strikes me as a stretch too far to swallow. The mostly likely explanation is that this was a complete different Jezebel.

The reason this is a stretch, and bothersome to me, is that Hamilton's conjecture presupposes a spirit that gets passed on down the line, a thousand years later. Or maybe a eternal Jezebel spirit flitting and flighting around, jumping into people, all over the place, from generation to generation.

It's possible she's a demonic principality in which case she'd have many other fallen angels or demons under her command.

Moreover, if such a spirit of Jezebel is entering into and possessing people, how can God hold the possessed accountable at the judgment seat? After all it's Jezebel doing the bad things. The possessed person is being victimized by a spirit much more powerful than the possessed person could ever dream of being.

You can't become possessed by a spirit unless you give it authority either by giving it explicit permission or through obeying its temptations. Paul said in Romans 6:16 that we are slaves of the one we obey, in other words we become mastered by whatever we obey. God respects authority and that's why Satan was handed man's God given dominion after Adam listened to the serpent by taking fruit of that other tree. The implication is also that it's very important we make Jesus our master by obeying the Lord and not anything else because Christ says we can only serve one master. If we become mastered by the things of the world, we don't have a legal right to be a part of the Messiah's coming kingdom but we'll be destroyed along with Satan's kingdom when Jesus comes to take his throne here on earth. (Jesus says either you're for me or against me!) Also the eternal fate of the servant cannot exceed that of the master because Jesus taught that a servant is not greater than the master (think of who Jesus says follows Satan to the lake of fire in Matthew).

This has nothing to do with works because we can make Jesus our Lord simply by giving our whole heart to him through faith. We ultimately end up serving the one who has our heart.

Paul tells us to hold every thought captive to the obedient of Christ. I've been practicing this in my mind. Whenever I get a fleshly thought I rebuke it in the name of Jesus. This has done wonders for my spiritual and emotional health, and I rarely get these thoughts anymore. I can testify that it's possible to not lust after a woman in your mind almost indefinitely which is something I never thought was never possible for a man to do. When I see an attractive woman now, the temptation to lust simply doesn't materialize in my head believe it or not and if it does I rebuke it immediately. The less authority you give by not yielding to the desire of your flesh, the less you are susceptible to it. (The difference from asceticism is as Christians we can develop an enormous spiritual hunger from feeding our spirit through prayer, reading bible and doing God's will by loving God and neighbor by which we experience God's presence which is more satisfying than anything we can attain in the flesh - for me to die is gain, to live is Christ - Phil 1:21)

The key was to realize that many of the thoughts we get to sin do not necessarily come from our person but are fiery darts thrown by the enemy (Eph 6:16). With this wisdom, you can quickly disassociate thoughts like this from your identity and by attributing it to the enemy become better equipped to obey your spirit instead which leads to practicing righteousness which leads to holiness which leads to eternal life (Romans 6). In answer to my prayer for God to increase my humility I recently realized I haven't been filtering out temptations leading to spiritual pride which I need to start doing.

If you give any credibility to NDE experiences, here's one by a baptist minister named Howard Pittman who saw demons while he was dead during his NDE which added a lot to my understanding of the spiritual realm:

http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/89.html

Here's a pastor's experience with demonic attack when he was young where he made the revelation that the evil thoughts he had that were driving him crazy were not his and started taking the thoughts captive in obedience to Christ by which he was finally delivered from a spiraling depression that almost ended in suicide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tvgPX73Ooc

[awareness]

Originally Posted by bearbear

It's possible she's a demonic principality in which case she'd have many other fallen angels or demons under her command.

So let me get this straight. This powerful demon that possessed Jezebel in the Old Testament, and thereby got it's name, came forth a thousand yrs later, to possess the prophetess Jezebel at Thyatira, and then, 2 thousand yrs later possessed Watchman Nee, who then transferred this powerful spirit demon to Witness Lee, both claiming to give their all for Christ?

WOW! The spirit world is a crazy woo-woo world. Who can know it?

And thanks for the personal testimony bearbear ... and the videos. You're one busy dude ... and just spilling over with info.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by awareness

So let me get this straight. This powerful demon that possessed Jezebel in the Old Testament, and thereby got it's name, came forth a thousand yrs later, to possess the prophetess Jezebel at Thyatira, and then, 2 thousand yrs later possessed Watchman Nee, who then transferred this powerful spirit demon to Witness Lee, both claiming to give their all for Christ?

WOW! The spirit world is a crazy woo-woo world. Who can know it?

And thanks for the personal testimony bearbear ... and the videos. You're one busy dude ... and just spilling over with info.

I am currently on vacation so I got plenty of time Actually I feel a huge burden lift off me when I put my thoughts into writing so I do quite enjoy it as I do when I speak IRL.

Hmm I certainly don't think Watchman Nee was a fake Christian. He bore some really good fruit. If the reports of him are true, I'm sure he had come to full repentance after 20 years in prison and I'd be surprised if he wasn't in heaven right now telling some pretty crazy stories. I'm not sure of the theological implications of a demon possessing versus being limited to attacking a Spirit-filled born again Christian- perhaps others can expound on this.

"Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him." - 1 Samuel 16:14

What comes to mind is Saul was once filled with the Spirit of God after his anointing. However it says that the Spirit of God left him before the evil spirits came. So perhaps you can grieve the Holy Spirit to a degree that he actually leaves you (the wind blows where it wills John 3:8), leaving room for demonic possession. This is just something I thought of immediately and have not seriously dwelt on. I believe the NT teaches that you can grieve the Holy Spirit enough for him to leave you, but these people never belonged to God in the first place:

Hebrews 6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.