My Views and Stance on The Recovery

[OBW]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

What if you are bed ridden? And can't come to the fellowship meetings? At first, a few people will gather around the ill individual...reading from the HWMR..maybe playing a tape from the meeting...but after a while, the visitations will taper off. ESPECIALLY if the person was just a mediocre member of the LSM...

I saw a variant on that as my mother's health deteriorated over a period of six months ultimately ending in her death. The sequence of events was understood as inevitable.

But as time went on, I remember my dad mentioning that at least a couple of times one or another of the brothers he had often had Saturday breakfast with asked him in a typically upbeat way "how's is going?" to which my dad could only say something like "other than the fact that my wife id dying, I guess OK." I don't know what he really thought about it, but I suspect that he had at least some realization that being upbeat is just part of the system.

And when we had the funeral, I was fit to be tied. I appreciate that so many did come. But it seemed more about spouting off upbeat memories (that at least in some cases did not compare to reality). It was a sort of zoo. I was there to pay respects to my mother and continue to mourn her death and they were busy being chipper and saying how she was one of the most unopinionated people they had ever known. (I wondered who that person was that they were talking about.)

That was several years back now. But their shallow . . . no . . . hollow effort to deal with anything that is not simply Christ and the church and finding good material as they denigrate everyone else in the name of oneness is just a stick in my craw. I wish that the rest of my family saw it clearly enough to get out. Then I would probably just quit thinking about this system of error that calls itself the "Lord's recovery."

Just the comments surrounding some who committed suicide, or even just had trouble with their marriages. People need more than more meetings and more HWMR. They need real people who share in their sufferings. Who come along side with honest help (which is very different from an exhortation to suck-it-up).

And they may need real help, including some kind of medication.

No matter how positively I think concerning some of the individuals, I'm not sure that a system as bereft of real Christian experiance and belief as they are hitched to can equip them to provide any of the kind of comfort or other help that is needed.

I'm glad I am not relying on them for what I need. (Of course they would say that you just need Christ. That is true. But Christ has real, live arms and legs in the form of other Christians. They would deny those to people in need.)

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

Of course they would say that you just need Christ. That is true. But Christ has real, live arms and legs in the form of other Christians.

When you begin to see this, the scriptures just open up right in front of you. And you begin to look at the person next to you, i.e. your "neighbor" differently.

What happened was I began to no longer look past the person next to me, but I began to look at them. Instead of trying to give them speeches, I began to listen to them. Instead of trying to bring them to a meeting, I began to meet with them, right where they were. Instead of putting expectations on them, of who I thought they should be, I began to accept them for what they were, as God had made them. Instead of judging them for their shortcomings, I saw these as opportunities to be merciful, just as I knew that my shortcomings before God had been forgiven in Christ Jesus.

And so forth. OBW put the idea so well, I just wanted to "amen" his point.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by OBW

I saw a variant on that as my mother's health deteriorated over a period of six months ultimately ending in her death. The sequence of events was understood as inevitable.

as time went on, I remember my dad mentioning that at least a couple of times one or another of the brothers he had often had Saturday breakfast with asked him in a typically upbeat way "how's is going?" to which my dad could only say something like "other than the fact that my wife is dying, I guess OK." I don't know what he really thought about it, but I suspect that he had at least some realization that being upbeat is just part of the system.

And when we had the funeral, I was fit to be tied. I appreciate that so many did come. ... But their shallow . . . no . . . hollow effort to deal with anything that is not simply Christ and the church and finding good material as they denigrate everyone else in the name of oneness is just a stick in my craw. I wish that the rest of my family saw it clearly enough to get out. Then I would probably just quit thinking about this system of error that calls itself the "Lord's recovery."

I have been thinking about this post OBW. I was going to begin by sending you my belated condolences on your mother's passing. But I think I will begin by sending you my condolences to you for the painful treatment you have endured by your family for not being 'one with the system'.

I get the celebration of a person's life at funerals. Unless the person's passing came through a violent & tragic death, or if it was a child's passing, many people are 'celebrating' their life at funerals. Non believers as well as believers. My beef is what are people especially in the LSM doing for the family and the bed ridden person. First off, I hate the 'cliche' of doing a 'good deed' without real Love and Friendship behind the action.

Let me clarify. I have seen and experienced myself 'church people' come to a home with food and a short visit. It is expected of them to do this service.

You put it so well:

Just the comments surrounding some who committed suicide, or even just had trouble with their marriages. People need more than more meetings and more HWMR. They need real people who share in their sufferings. Who come along side with honest help (which is very different from an exhortation to suck-it-up).

Real friends and real family are there for you all the time. They call you to chat at least once-twice a week. (& vice-versa..we do the same) We visit each other. Play board games. Play charades. Enjoy each other's company. And not just for a 'bible study' or fellowship. OF course every visit imho should involve the Lord Jesus in the activity.

Anyway I am glad you saw the LIGHT and were 'led out' of the LSM

I'm glad I am not relying on them for what I need. (Of course they would say that you just need Christ. That is true. But Christ has real, live arms and legs in the form of other Christians. They would deny those to people in need.)

Yes Christ is REAL... and Christ, our GOD is LOVE. He is compassionate. He smiles and He cries. He has a sense of Humor. He is Creative. He is the ultimate Creator. He is there for us. And HIS SPIRIT lives in us. But more often than not, we stifle Him with our baggage.

That is one among many reasons why I so look forward to returning whence we came from! To live in the Holy City New Jerusalem. We will experience real Love, Joy, and Beauty beyond our imagination. No more division!!!

I pray the Lord truly bless you OBW..may He surround you with lots of real friends, lots of Love from your immediate family and above all embrace you with His LOVE and inner peace.

Blessings and thanks for sharing,

Carol g

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

Just the comments surrounding some who committed suicide, or even just had trouble with their marriages. People need more than more meetings and more HWMR. They need real people who share in their sufferings. Who come along side with honest help (which is very different from an exhortation to suck-it-up).

While still meeting in the Local churhes, I experienced two completely different home meetings. One where the home meeting consisted of singing songs, getting into the HWFMR, nd no personal prayer. The other not being ministry focused, but person focused. Taking time to listen to each other's troubles and praying for one another; week after week. How can you have talk of turnnga to your spirit, when your soul needs shepherding?

[Truth]

I have a love-hate relationship with the "Recovery church life". I love it because I have way too many friends and loved ones in it. And I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord (whether in or outside of the Recovery). Yet I hate the system so much. I especially hate the way we walk around thinking that we are it (God's move on the earth) when we are just the same as all the other Christians outside the "church life". I'm beginning to see less and less of a difference between "us" and "them". In the early days (the 60's and perhaps 70's), things may have been different. But now the "recovery" is just another Christian denomination. Period. And a peculiar one.

Originally Posted by Truth

I have a love-hate relationship with the "Recovery church life". I love it because I have way too many friends and loved ones in it. And I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord (whether in or outside of the Recovery). Yet I hate the system so much. I especially hate the way we walk around thinking that we are it (God's move on the earth) when we are just the same as all the other Christians outside the "church life". I'm beginning to see less and less of a difference between "us" and "them". In the early days (the 60's and perhaps 70's), things may have been different. But now the "recovery" is just another Christian denomination. Period. And a peculiar one.

Actually, I've been meeting with an evangelical denomination for several years, and it is nothing like the "Lord's Recovery." There is a big difference. I now know many Christians who actually are full of love and grace, and who treat people with kindness and tenderness. That was not the case in the Recovery.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually, I've been meeting with an evangelical denomination for several years, and it is nothing like the "Lord's Recovery." There is a big difference. I now know many Christians who actually are full of love and grace, and who treat people with kindness and tenderness. That was not the case in the Recovery.

That has been my experience too. In the recovery there is not much grace for those that leave. Probably because grace is not practiced. Instead the attitude is an us versus them behavior. Either you're with us or against us. If you don't take the way of the ministry, you're against us.
The community church I have been meeting with for several years is one of grace. There's no us versus them. When you stop meeting here, you're still part of us.
Witnessing it first hand at a Starbuck's coffee shop while meeting with one of the elders. A former elder happened to coincidentally come to the Starbucks and there was a joyful exchange between the former elder and the current elder (whom I was meeting with).

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Truth

I have a love-hate relationship with the "Recovery church life". I love it because I have way too many friends and loved ones in it. And I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord (whether in or outside of the Recovery). Yet I hate the system so much.

Sorry you are stuck between a rock & a hard place TRUTH. A close look at The LSM reveals it is no different than any other church organization. While you are in that church, some to many people become friends. Once they leave, rarely do they pal around. Just like office workers. People are 'friends' at work but outside work few friendships really remain intact.

A true test of friendship is if you are able to open up to those you consider friends and tell them you have a love-hate relationship w/the RcV. Same goes w/your loved ones (assuming they are family ??) IF you decide to stop going to meetings etc... will they still accept you? But beware, they will still want to read Lee's works with you if they remain 'friends' with you. See if they will read a book or listen to a teaching from someone outside the LSM. Bet they won't.

That said,the most important matter to you must be you remain rock solid in your relationship with your Creator should you ever cut the ties.

Remember: On Christ the Solid ROCK we stand. All other ground is sinking sand. And that includes the RcV.

Another factoid to give you encouragement: There is NO LSM/LC/RcV in heaven. The BRIDE is the Holy City New Jerusalem that comes down from HEAVEN. And the BRIDE is not made up of the LSM people of God only.

In the early days (the 60's and perhaps 70's), things may have been different. But now the "recovery" is just another Christian denomination. Period. And a peculiar one.

On some levels, it was great! At least in my locality. But by 1977/78, there was such a huge emphasis on 'Brother Lee' being the apostle Paul and the 'oracle of this age'. It went from Christ & the church to Lee & the church, then to Lee & his ministry. :-( which is full of errors & fallacies.

Never forget...Jesus is the Author & Finisher, the Perfector of our Faith. His Spirit will lead us in the path of Righteousness for HIS Name's sake...not anyone else's name.

Blessings & Shalom Truth,
Carol G

[OBW]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

A close look at The LSM reveals it is no different than any other church organization.

I must disagree.

I know you meant that as a "push down the ladder" for the LSM. But instead, you raised the LSM to a level that they do not deserve.

I honestly believe that most comparisons to other "church organizations" should be avoided because in those we tend to continue in our lack of brotherly love toward other Christians, no matter what the writer of the particular post (in this case you) means by it. In other words, not matter how generous you intend to be toward other Christians, it still goes into, through, and back out of our brains as a denigration to them as well.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by OBW

I must disagree....

Of COURSE you disagree Mike !! That's a no brainer.

Carry on....
And the Lord Bless you & all of us because we LOVE HIM and we are ALL a work in progress until we are changed from this corruptible body into our INCORRUPTIBLE bodies to the Glory and Praise of our Savior's Name - Jesus Christ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

I must disagree.

That, to me, is your signature line.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That, to me, is your signature line.

And, in some sense, it is my nature. If everything is as I think it should be, I am happy that others are saying it. No need to pile on.

But when I think there is something being missed. . . .

Yeah. I know. It often comes across as "whatever did you think you were saying."

In this case, I understood CMW quite well. And without complaint. She was knocking the LSM down from their high-horse as THE publisher of THE ONLY MINISTRY OF GOD. And I applaud her for that.

The problem is the rest of us as we read. For us who have been out for some time now, it is not such an issue (at least not in all cases). But for those still inside, or only barely out, the mind is too polluted by the LRC/LSM garbage that makes any kind of "church organization," or for that matter "organization" as essentially against the tenets of scripture.

Then, add to it that I needed that tongue-in-cheek smiley (that they don't have) when I suggested that she had just insulted so many good Christian/church organizations by suggesting that they were on the same level as the LSM. But if I were Lifeway Bookstore, Billy Graham Evangelistic Crusade (or whatever it is called), or any other number of Christian organizations, I would have been somewhat insulted to be lowered to the level of the LSM (wink, wink, nod, nod, say no more )

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truth

I have a love-hate relationship with the "Recovery church life". I love it because I have way too many friends and loved ones in it. And I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord (whether in or outside of the Recovery). Yet I hate the system so much. I especially hate the way we walk around thinking that we are it (God's move on the earth) when we are just the same as all the other Christians outside the "church life". I'm beginning to see less and less of a difference between "us" and "them". In the early days (the 60's and perhaps 70's), things may have been different. But now the "recovery" is just another Christian denomination. Period. And a peculiar one.

Nearly everyone of my posts has this guiding principle -- the LC leaders are different than the many members I have grown to love. I never blame them for the deterioration which has occurred over the years, because all the responsibility lies with their leaders. It is they who have betrayed our trust, and taken advantage of us.