"Against the Tide" by Angus Kinnear

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The accounts of history show us that WL would bully TC, whether TC submitted to WL or not. Likewise, I know of far too many cases where TC would bully other brothers, whether they would submit or not.

We have the purported history of MEB disciplining WN.

We have seen (I saw it myself) WL shaming TC publicly.

We have Ohio's accounts of TC bullying the GLA saints.

What we don't have is the WN-to-WL dynamic. What was WN's leadership style? We have, as I recall WL's accounts of a humble, suffering servant WN who was persecuted by rebellious and misunderstanding saints. Expelled from ministry on false pretenses and so forth. "The woman he was living with was actually his mother." Etc.

But in his writing on "authority" and "submission" WN seems to indicate an authoritarian leadership style that WL praised in MEB, demonstrated publicly with TC and others, and TC and others copied from WL.

But I am not aware of objective, outside (non-LSM) accounts of WN's leadership style with WL and other subordinates.

Is there anything out there on this?

Secondly, I suppose WN could have actually been a "non-bully". But the system which he established of one-church-one-city allowed the bullys to emerge, and eventually dominate. The checks and balances were removed. So WN's leadership history may be irrelevant.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

We have Ohio's accounts of TC bullying the GLA saints.

Just a little clarification.

Most (many?) of the saints in the GLA would actually consider TC to be "grandfatherly." He was rarely overbearing in public, and often was quite charming. It was with the gifted ones, the elders and the workers, that TC could really put to shame, without provocation, notification, or justification.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

TC was rarely overbearing in public... It was with the gifted ones, the elders and the workers, that TC could really put to shame, without provocation, notification, or justification.

Your comment adds a layer to the shaming/dominating-based pattern of "discipling" or "training" relationships.

MEB to WN: check.

WN to WL: ??

WL to TC: check.

TC to his more gifted subordinates: check.

TC's underlings to the GLA rank-and-file: check.

TC didn't bully you directly. Instead he did it through an elder. I suppose you (Ohio) were meant to "disciple" someone else underneath you, as well. As I said, we are looking at a behavioral pattern here; a clear behavioral pattern manifesting itself institutionally through the construction of a worldly, fear- and shame-based hierarchical organization.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

TC didn't bully you directly. Instead he did it through an elder. I suppose you (Ohio) were meant to "disciple" someone else underneath you, as well. As I said, we are looking at a behavioral pattern here; a clear behavioral pattern manifesting itself institutionally through the construction of a worldly, fear- and shame-based hierarchical organization.

The Recovery is definitely a "shame-based hierarchical organization."

I remember the shock Don Rutledge received while visiting Anaheim for a leaders' gathering. He had known "Early-Lee" in the late-60's early-70's, and enjoyed a "brotherly" relationship with Witness Lee, as a younger brother with an older brother. While staying with Ned Nossaman, Don was publicly shamed by Lee. On the way home, Ned started laughing at Don's dismay, and welcomed him to the "weekly ice-cold shower," courtesy of WL.

Recently I spent some time with an old LC friend of mine, being reunited after both of us had been out of the Recovery for some time. We shared a few stories of abuse at the hands of TC and his lieutenants. That time together dispelled any doubts I might have had, that the Recovery was just a breeding ground for bullies.

And they wonder why so many marriages have failed, and why so many of the 2nd generation want nothing to do with them. Many of the American families who survived were because the wife refused to tolerate that nonsense.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I remember the shock Don Rutledge ... was publicly shamed by Lee. On the way home, Ned started laughing at Don's dismay, and welcomed him to the "weekly ice-cold shower," courtesy of WL.

Local church M.O. - first you "brotherly love" them to get them in, and then once they are invested in your scheme, you let them know their place.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Is there anything out there on this?
Secondly, I suppose WN could have actually been a "non-bully". But the system which he established of one-church-one-city allowed the bullys to emerge, and eventually dominate. The checks and balances were removed. So WN's leadership history may be irrelevant.

I would call Nee's deputy authority and MOTA doctrine bullying, or the basis of it. And also his insistence on "Handing Over."

Both revealed and documented in Dr. Hsu's book.