Is The Bible Inerrant?

[OBW]

Harold,

You didn't read the rest of my post. I effectively dumped inerrancy as a useful term.

Read zeek's post (the one before yours). A different take on it than mine, but insightful.

The Bible is a collection of narratives and writings concerning God covering some centuries of time. It is lousy as a detailed history or as a science text. But it reveals God. But it does not do that very well unless the Spirit enlightens it. Then and only then can the term "inerrant" even begin to be discussed.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

Harold,

You didn't read the rest of my post. I effectively dumped inerrancy as a useful term.

Read zeek's post (the one before yours). A different take on it than mine, but insightful.

The Bible is a collection of narratives and writings concerning God covering some centuries of time. It is lousy as a detailed history or as a science text. But it reveals God. But it does not do that very well unless the Spirit enlightens it. Then and only then can the term "inerrant" even begin to be discussed.

I love the Bible, and I'm in it everyday. I'm just not idealistic about its origins. Much of it came out of the Bronze age, with the very limited science of their day, and limited understanding of the universe, compared to today.

And yes, you can get around those limitations by claiming that the Bible is a revelation from God, so it has God's unlimited cosmic knowledge in it.

There's many ways to take the Bible ... but few can actually be proven ... cuz we can't time travel back to see what actually happened.

And yes, bro Mike, I really appreciated your take on inerrancy.

If the Bible opens you up to God, it's done its job.

Writing has only been around since circa 3500 BCE. So does that mean God was unable to communicate with man before the advent of writing?

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by awareness

Writing has only been around since circa 3500 BCE. So does that mean God was unable to communicate with man before the advent of writing?

Ever heard of speaking? I suspect you're being disingenuous.
Writing is the record of what God has spoken, the Bible is that record in one form or another--either in the words of God verbatim or through, for example, the Acts where there is a lot of history mixed in with God's word.

How do you understand Hebrews 11:1?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Ever heard of speaking? I suspect you're being disingenuous.

Hey bro ABinF. That was my point about Abraham, that, he received God's word without any Bible at all. It's been asked out here, "How could you know God without the Bible?" Well how did Abraham know God? And don't tell me I wouldn't know that without the Bible. Just because I wouldn't know about Abraham isn't the point. The point is I can too know God without the Bible, or knowing anything about Abraham.

So, you are right when you ask "ever heard of speaking?" You got my point.

Writing is the record of what God has spoken, the Bible is that record in one form or another--either in the words of God verbatim or through, for example, the Acts where there is a lot of history mixed in with God's word.

And thank God for the Bible. It's full of great stuff. If the Psalms is the word of Christ it's because God can speak without a book. So the Bible is not necessary to receive the word of God. The Bible can be dead letter ... that can "kill." Do you realize the Bible can kill? It kills when it replaces God's living word. That's why people beat each other up with it.

How do you understand Hebrews 11:1?

I don't follow. Please explain.

[UntoHim]

Here ya go Harold. Let's keep all the "inerrant" stuff over here.

Watch your step...the same Forum rules apply here just as anywhere else.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Here ya go Harold. Let's keep all the "inerrant" stuff over here.

Watch your step...the same Forum rules apply here just as anywhere else.

Oh ... yer such a sweetheart ... I love ya ... and will do my best to be a good boy ... I'm not worthy.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Here ya go Harold. Let's keep all the "inerrant" stuff over here.

Watch your step...the same Forum rules apply here just as anywhere else.

...so you're giving Harold a thread with which to hang himself?

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by awareness

And thank God for the Bible. It's full of great stuff. If the Psalms is the word of Christ it's because God can speak without a book. So the Bible is not necessary to receive the word of God. The Bible can be dead letter ... that can "kill." Do you realize the Bible can kill? It kills when it replaces God's living word. That's why people beat each other up with it.
I don't follow. Please explain.

Of course God can speak without a book, but He has given us the Bible as His word. To second guess it is to second guess Him. Because the Bible can kill does not me there is something wrong with it. You're interpretation of it, your understanding of it, if it leads to such killing has something wrong.

The Bible is the record. Without the record we would have no knowledge, unless there were some other record, unless God chose to speak in another way (He hasn't). We are living in a time when the Bible exists, without it we have no reference point, nothing to base out faith on. Your supposed knowledge of God would mean nothing to me or anyone else without such a reference point. I could claim to have God's speaking and someone else could claim it as well. Those so called words of God could be ad odds. How would you know which one was God's true Word? You wouldn't.

Hebrews 11:1 replies to your needing proof.

Ask yourself why you need proof, or why you know better. Why is your logic superior? Faith is simple. Maybe too simple for some. And that is it's power, that is the wisdom of God.

I believe the Bible is the Word of God because God, in my heart, in my mind, and somehow in my spirit, has affirmed my this belief. There is a lot I don't understand and can't reconcile, but I am not God. Nor do I seek to be.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That was my point about Abraham, that, he received God's word without any Bible at all. It's been asked out here, "How could you know God without the Bible?" Well how did Abraham know God? And don't tell me I wouldn't know that without the Bible. Just because I wouldn't know about Abraham isn't the point. The point is I can too know God without the Bible, or knowing anything about Abraham.

Your logic is seriously flawed. Times have changed, and so has our God.

In the O.T., if you tried to build an altar like Abraham did, God would reject it. His temple was in Jerusalem.

In the N.T., if you tried to worship in the temple, God would reject it. We must worship Him in the Son.

The more I hear you boasting that you can know God without His word, the less I hear God in your words.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your logic is seriously flawed. Times have changed, and so has our God.

In the O.T., if you tried to build an altar like Abraham did, God would reject it. His temple was in Jerusalem.

In the N.T., if you tried to worship in the temple, God would reject it. We must worship Him in the Son.

The more I hear you boasting that you can know God without His word, the less I hear God in your words.

What has changed demonstrably is human culture. That includes religion and science. James 1:17 says that God does not change. The Nicene Creed states that those who assert that God is 'changeable,' or 'alterable' are 'condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church'.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your logic is seriously flawed. Times have changed, and so has our God.

Whoops. I think I get what you are saying, but others might not.

In the O.T., if you tried to build an altar like Abraham did, God would reject it. His temple was in Jerusalem.

Can you cite verses to back this up? I'm not sure God would reject any worship. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm open to learning.

In the N.T., if you tried to worship in the temple, God would reject it. We must worship Him in the Son.

Yes Jesus is recorded as saying in Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

But it's also recorded :

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act_3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act_3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act_3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
Act_3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

The more I hear you boasting that you can know God without His word, the less I hear God in your words.

Boasting? I'm but a worm. How can I boast of anything?

Of course you don't hear God in my words. Aren't you looking at my words against inerrancy as a direct assault and affront on God Himself?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Whoops. I think I get what you are saying, but others might not.

I don't get it, I am lost. Correct me where I am mistaken:

Awareness -- Your position is that the Bible is the word of God, you love the Bible, you love God, but many parts of the Bible are man's word, not divinely inspired. Also, you can worship God without the Bible. And the misunderstanding of various Bible verses have been used to justify evil actions by man. You also don't agree with the concept that times have changed and as a result man's worship of God has changed too. You state that since Abraham didn't have a Bible and worshipped God, you also don't need a Bible.

This seems to me to be what you have said, am I wrong, am I missing the key point, or is this pretty much correct?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I love the Bible, and I'm in it everyday. I'm just not idealistic about its origins. Much of it came out of the Bronze age, with the very limited science of their day, and limited understanding of the universe, compared to today.

This bronze age talk is bunk. I know kids on "smart" phones texting and tweeting 1000x a day who can't even communicate with an adult, yet are convinced they are so "smart." How has human nature changed from 5,000 years ago? To say that God's word is out-of-date in the 21st century is foolishness.

That's like W. Lee saying all of Christianity is stuck using horse and buggy but his "new way" is like taking a Boeing 747.

Limited science? We have today millions of doctors and scholars who are convinced that you evolved from a monkey. I'm not discrediting learning, but one can be steeped in it without an ounce of common sense wisdom from God.