The Great NorthWest - Discussions & Concerns covering NorthWest area of USA

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Terry

Forgive me, but I harbor doubt and skepticism that oneness in practicality can be as a "two way street" in mutuality. My sense as a non-essential item of faith, the LSM publications become essential for oneness in practicality.

No question about it: Witness Lee's ministry is the basis of the LC systems' "oneness in practicality". Of course all Christians in a city will never swallow this idea of "oneness". Why should they?

If James Lee came to my church and preached about "practical oneness" and told the truth that he meant joining the LC system and accepting LSM as the one publisher and Witness Lee as the MOTA and the BB as his official continuation we would think he's a weirdo.

As we did some more research we would realize that Ray Graver says the lampstands all went out in the GLA when they wouldn't fall in line with the Anaheim Politburo and would think: "Hey this is what they do to their own coworkers, elders and churches within the system." Does anyone over there at LC HQ seriously believe we would want to have anything to do with that sort of "practical oneness"?

[TLFisher]

Here's an excerpt of what was shared last month:

"I will not be specific. Only the Lord knows how deepened the wound. In this part of the earth, inflicted by the enemy to a gifted person, who had a kind of ministry, but not for the building up of the Body. What was the issue? How much building was the issue of that? What is the outcome? Even this event should be a learning to us. In our being we have the same germ. We need the Lord's mercy. Anyone who serves the Lord as a gift has to pass through radical purification. You're not for yourself! You're not to get a following! You're not for your own thing! You're for God's goal and you're for the saints! And you're to impart what's been wrought in you into them and then just be the same. And we all do the work of the ministry. I believe this will be the way to totally nullify everything the enemy did historically in this part of the earth. Is not only the the situation is resolved outwardly. Is that we're back on track. We're back on track. This is never going to happen among us again! We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body. We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer. Lord, we want to contribute to this in the time left. We want to contribute directly to the work of the ministry. So any activity that is not for the building up of the Body of Christ is a work of division. You can have a radio program. You can have a newspaper. You can have Bible studies in your big house. Lots of activity. People are drawn. People are helped temporarily, but it is not for the building up of the Body of Christ. After exercising long forbearance, Brother Lee publicly renedered his view of this situation. He said the brother asked me to speak concerning his work and Brother Lee said it is a division. The ministry as only one goal to build up the Body of Christ."

[aron]

Originally Posted by Terry

"Lots of activity. People are drawn. People are helped temporarily, but it is not for the building up of the Body of Christ. After exercising long forbearance, Brother Lee publicly rendered his view of this situation. He said the brother asked me to speak concerning his work and Brother Lee said it is a division. The ministry as only one goal to build up the Body of Christ."

Pretty spiritual, when you have such penetrating insight as Lee had: "What I do builds up the body of Christ. What everybody else does is a division."

That is merely self-referential subjectivism masquerading as objective truth. When it builds a reinforcing system around itself it is hard to bring down. Paul in 2 Corinthians 10 talks about bringing down "high things" which are opposed to the knowledge of God. I would posit that such are the mental construct(s) behind that kind of teaching, presented here by Terry.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Terry

Here's an excerpt of what was shared last month:

"I will not be specific. Only the Lord knows how deepened the wound. In this part of the earth, inflicted by the enemy to a gifted person, who had a kind of ministry, but not for the building up of the Body. What was the issue? How much building was the issue of that? What is the outcome? Even this event should be a learning to us. In our being we have the same germ. We need the Lord's mercy. Anyone who serves the Lord as a gift has to pass through radical purification. You're not for yourself! You're not to get a following! You're not for your own thing! You're for God's goal and you're for the saints! And you're to impart what's been wrought in you into them and then just be the same. And we all do the work of the ministry. I believe this will be the way to totally nullify everything the enemy did historically in this part of the earth. Is not only the the situation is resolved outwardly. Is that we're back on track. We're back on track. This is never going to happen among us again! We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body. We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer. Lord, we want to contribute to this in the time left. We want to contribute directly to the work of the ministry. So any activity that is not for the building up of the Body of Christ is a work of division. You can have a radio program. You can have a newspaper. You can have Bible studies in your big house. Lots of activity. People are drawn. People are helped temporarily, but it is not for the building up of the Body of Christ. After exercising long forbearance, Brother Lee publicly renedered his view of this situation. He said the brother asked me to speak concerning his work and Brother Lee said it is a division. The ministry as only one goal to build up the Body of Christ."

I'm sure that they had specific things or even a single thing in mind. But they avoid directly speaking of it.

Was there any indication of whatever "it" was that they are getting beyond? That they were "over"?

Or were the faithful to just accept that something had been going on but it was now "over"?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

I'm sure that they had specific things or even a single thing in mind. But they avoid directly speaking of it.

Was there any indication of whatever "it" was that they are getting beyond? That they were "over"?

Or were the faithful to just accept that something had been going on but it was now "over"?

Well OBW, I think you know as well as I do. When as adults choosing to go elsewhere for fellowship while the parents continue to meet in the local churches. Same applies here. Ron in his speaking, "In this part of the earth", many would infer to the Puget Sound region where Seattle is. Where brother Ron says, "inflicted by the enemy to a gifted person, who had a kind of ministry", that would recognized as meaning Bill Freeman. Of course there are other hints to direct the listener to know who he was talking about without being specific.
The saints from Seattle who moved down to Scottsdale was years (85-87?)before I moved (93) to Washington state. Some of whom were younger gifted brothers whose parents continued to meet with Washington state localities. As to being over it, in my first local church home meeting in 1994, following the meeting part of the conversation centered around "the rebels" who went to Scottsdale. Having been out of the churchlife for a period of years, I wasn't clear by what was meant as rebels or whom?
A few years later one of the brothers from Scottsdale came up for his sister's wedding (as she and their mom still met in the local churches). As for one who was presumed to be a rebel, I was quite impressed with the brother and how well he was received by the saints from our locality. Though meeting in fellowship apart from the local churches, he was still family; a member of the Body.
Are they any more over it know than then? I don't know. Perhaps the concept among some in the local churches needs to change from "Us and Them" to, "are you pressing on with the Lord where you fellowship"?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Terry

Here's an excerpt of what was shared last month:

"I will not be specific. Only the Lord knows how deepened the wound. In this part of the earth, inflicted by the enemy to a gifted person, who had a kind of ministry, but not for the building up of the Body. What was the issue? How much building was the issue of that? What is the outcome? Even this event should be a learning to us. In our being we have the same germ. We need the Lord's mercy. Anyone who serves the Lord as a gift has to pass through radical purification. You're not for yourself! You're not to get a following! You're not for your own thing! You're for God's goal and you're for the saints! And you're to impart what's been wrought in you into them and then just be the same. And we all do the work of the ministry. I believe this will be the way to totally nullify everything the enemy did historically in this part of the earth. Is not only the the situation is resolved outwardly. Is that we're back on track. We're back on track. This is never going to happen among us again! We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body. We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer. Lord, we want to contribute to this in the time left. We want to contribute directly to the work of the ministry. So any activity that is not for the building up of the Body of Christ is a work of division. You can have a radio program. You can have a newspaper. You can have Bible studies in your big house. Lots of activity. People are drawn. People are helped temporarily, but it is not for the building up of the Body of Christ. After exercising long forbearance, Brother Lee publicly renedered his view of this situation. He said the brother asked me to speak concerning his work and Brother Lee said it is a division. The ministry as only one goal to build up the Body of Christ."

With Bill Freeman's passing last Friday, I thought of this word spoken by Ron Kangas last November. Assuredly in the aftermath of what Ron spoke in Ecaudor, he was not going to mention Bill Freeman by name. Many of those in attendance knew exactly who Ron was referring to.
In light of what Ron spoke in November 2011 on Mark 11:25-26, I had hoped there would be a heart change towards brothers like Bill Freeman who parted was from LSM fellowship.

Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions. [But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.”]

Ron did speak some words of truth I can testify to. "We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body. We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer." No, I am not a naive child any longer. I can tell the difference between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

With Bill Freeman's passing last Friday, I thought of this word spoken by Ron Kangas last November. Assuredly in the aftermath of what Ron spoke in Ecaudor, he was not going to mention Bill Freeman by name. Many of those in attendance knew exactly who Ron was referring to.
In light of what Ron spoke in November 2011 on Mark 11:25-26, I had hoped there would be a heart change towards brothers like Bill Freeman who parted was from LSM fellowship.

Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions. [But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.”]

Ron did speak some words of truth I can testify to. "We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body. We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer." No, I am not a naive child any longer. I can tell the difference between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body.

Wow, it is amazing how judgmental this guy is in his speaking. Seems like he can't wait till the great white throne of judgment.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow, it is amazing how judgmental this guy is in his speaking. Seems like he can't wait till the great white throne of judgment.

Please elaborate? My post or Ron's message?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

Please elaborate? My post or Ron's message?

"I will not be specific. Only the Lord knows how deepened the wound. In this part of the earth, inflicted by the enemy to a gifted person, who had a kind of ministry, but not for the building up of the Body."

Judgmental

"What was the issue? How much building was the issue of that? What is the outcome? Even this event should be a learning to us. In our being we have the same germ."

Judgmental

"We need the Lord's mercy. Anyone who serves the Lord as a gift has to pass through radical purification. You're not for yourself! You're not to get a following! You're not for your own thing! You're for God's goal and you're for the saints!"

Judgmental. When he says "we need the Lord's mercy" this is not in reference to his personal testimony but in relation to his judgement of someone else. It is repulsive. He implies that he was not purified by the Lord's blood, hence the "need". He is accusing him of getting a following, doing his own thing, not being for God's goal, and not being for the saints.

"And you're to impart what's been wrought in you into them and then just be the same. And we all do the work of the ministry. I believe this will be the way to totally nullify everything the enemy did historically in this part of the earth. Is not only the the situation is resolved outwardly. Is that we're back on track. We're back on track. This is never going to happen among us again!

Judgmental, repulsive, heinous.

We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body.

Judgmental. Despicable. Are we talking about Hitler? How long has he been dead?

"We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer. Lord, we want to contribute to this in the time left. We want to contribute directly to the work of the ministry. So any activity that is not for the building up of the Body of Christ is a work of division. You can have a radio program. You can have a newspaper. You can have Bible studies in your big house. Lots of activity. People are drawn. People are helped temporarily, but it is not for the building up of the Body of Christ. After exercising long forbearance, Brother Lee publicly renedered his view of this situation. He said the brother asked me to speak concerning his work and Brother Lee said it is a division. The ministry as only one goal to build up the Body of Christ."

Judgmental. What is very clear to me is that when we all do appear before the Lord's judgment there are going to be fireworks over this. One way or the other someone has called down judgment on themselves. This is one of those times I am glad to be merely a spectator.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Here's an excerpt of what was shared last month:

"I will not be specific. Only the Lord knows how deepened the wound. In this part of the earth, inflicted by the enemy to a gifted person, who had a kind of ministry, but not for the building up of the Body. What was the issue? How much building was the issue of that? What is the outcome? Even this event should be a learning to us. In our being we have the same germ. We need the Lord's mercy. Anyone who serves the Lord as a gift has to pass through radical purification. You're not for yourself! You're not to get a following! You're not for your own thing! You're for God's goal and you're for the saints! And you're to impart what's been wrought in you into them and then just be the same. And we all do the work of the ministry. I believe this will be the way to totally nullify everything the enemy did historically in this part of the earth. Is not only the the situation is resolved outwardly. Is that we're back on track. We're back on track. This is never going to happen among us again! We know the difference now between someone getting a following and someone burdened for the Body. We can tell the difference. We're not naive children any longer. Lord, we want to contribute to this in the time left. We want to contribute directly to the work of the ministry. So any activity that is not for the building up of the Body of Christ is a work of division. You can have a radio program. You can have a newspaper. You can have Bible studies in your big house. Lots of activity. People are drawn. People are helped temporarily, but it is not for the building up of the Body of Christ. After exercising long forbearance, Brother Lee publicly renedered his view of this situation. He said the brother asked me to speak concerning his work and Brother Lee said it is a division. The ministry as only one goal to build up the Body of Christ."

I'm confused. Who said this? To whom? Where?

Please try to be more informative about when you are posting and when you are quoting others. There are software features which can help, such as wrapping quotes in a box, using colors, italics, etc.

Terry, if you would spend a little more time polishing your posts, it would be greatly appreciated.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm confused. Who said this? To whom? Where?

Please try to be more informative about when you are posting and when you are quoting others. There are software features which can help, such as wrapping quotes in a box, using colors, italics, etc.

Terry, if you would spend a little more time polishing your posts, it would be greatly appreciated.

I was under the impression it was a quote from something Ron Kangas shared based on hearing that Bill Freeman had died.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I was under the impression it was a quote from something Ron Kangas shared based on hearing that Bill Freeman had died.

So you are confused too?

Bill Freeman passed away last week, but this thing is dated last November.

So Kangas is now a prophet?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So you are confused too?

Bill Freeman passed away last week, but this thing is dated last November.

So Kangas is now a prophet?

What is this that has come to the son of Kangas? Is Ron also among the prophets?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I was under the impression it was a quote from something Ron Kangas shared based on hearing that Bill Freeman had died.

No, ZNP. The source of the message has a link via post #12. It was from November 10, 2012.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Please try to be more informative about when you are posting and when you are quoting others. There are software features which can help, such as wrapping quotes in a box, using colors, italics, etc.

Terry, if you would spend a little more time polishing your posts, it would be greatly appreciated.

Ohio, in general when I post:
1. I use quotation punctuation.
2. Most of the time, but not always I place what I am quoting in bold.