Does Proverbs 26:4 contradict verse 5?

[77150]

Originally Posted by 77150

26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

I don’t think so. Look at verse 4, if you don’t answer a fool according to his folly then you won’ t be like unto him. But, he will be wise in his own conceit.

So how does this apply to the LRC?

Many saw abusive acts done in the LRC but kept quiet because they didn’t want to be like the abusers. (The Meek will inherit the earth?) However the result was that the folly increased and more saints were abused. (Please note in this discussion I am using abuse to refer to the type of abuse TC dished out not PL).

I think Proverbs is very clear, if you have someone like TC you are better off not responding to the abuse lest you also become like him. However, if that does not become tenable at some point you have to rebuke him so that he will not be wise in his own conceit, though that might necessitate your exit from the LC.

Why would you be concerned with him being wise in his own conceit? One reason would be you see that he is causing damage to others. I have seen saints do this on numerous occasions (rebuke leading ones who were foolish).

Also, according to Proverbs it is wise not to rebuke a fool because if you do you will become like him. What if that is no longer an issue, what if the entire LRC has come to look like fools? What happened to those that wrote about the LRC being a cult, they got sued, dragged into ugly litigation and went bankrupt. They were fools. But what if the LRC has become a house of fools? For those who are still there it is no longer wise to not rebuke them. At that point it is time to answer the fools according to their folly.

This is what Abigail did when she kept silent while Nabal partied, but in the morning when he had his hangover she spoke. Now that the LRC has spent so much money on the lawsuits and made themselves a byword, and all the prophesies of WL being the MOTA have proved to be bogus, and the LRC is splitting apart at the seems, now is the time for Abigail to speak.

If we agree that the behavior of WL, LSM and the BBs can be characterized by the term "folly" in Proverbs 26 then we can all agree that verses 4 and 5 refer to how to respond to their folly.

At some point you may have taken the route "not to answer a fool according to his folly" but I would argue that this strategy is no longer tenable.

Can you stay quiet while saints are being defrauded?
Can you stay quiet while all manner of evil is being said of saints falsely?
Can you stay quiet while elders bow down and apologize to the workers of iniquity?
Can you stay quiet while you see the hypocrisy of WL and LSM in the "Fermentation of the Present Rebellion" in which they cast those who stood up to sin as being rebellious?
Can you stay quiet while the LSM devours meeting halls belonging to the saints?
Can you stay quiet while LSM extorts the churches to subscribe to their books and services or else suffer the same fate as TC?
If you stay quiet does that mean that you also will be held accountable for their sins?
At some point you have to decide will you bend your knee to the Lord and proclaim that Jesus is Lord, or will you bow down to the LSM and BBs.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by 77150

If we agree that the behavior of WL, LSM and the BBs can be characterized by the term "folly" in Proverbs 26 then we can all agree that verses 4 and 5 refer to how to respond to their folly.

At some point you may have taken the route "not to answer a fool according to his folly" but I would argue that this strategy is no longer tenable.

While I agree with you overall, the real question is "to whom are we actually responding?" In other words, are we responding to the LSM, the BBs, etc.? Or are we making response for the consumption of others who are affected by the positions that they take, either as members of the LRC or as those harmed?

The reason I ask is that I have noted in a different place that there are some for whom responding to their folly is never the wise choice because they so clearly are not thinking and reasoning in a clear manner, therefore anything directed at them in any way outside of agreement is meaningless to them. On the other hand, there is a chance that others who may be swayed by the rhetoric of the fool's folly have enough rational capacity to recognize sound words.

So responding to the fool may constantly be contraindicated in some cases, yet, if done with wisdom, of great value to others. I do not believe that it is possible to let an "untenable" position force you into the error of responding in a manner that violates v 4 without providing the sound response required of v 5. And when the fool will remain in his arrogance and pride, no response is capable of refusing him his self-declared rightness.

I am not saying that there is no way to respond to the BBs relative to these verses. I am just suggesting that it could be true. I am aware of another person (in another context) that is clearly in that position. The only reason to even respond occasionally is to make it clear to the lurkers that their near insanity is not accepted as true. It makes no impact on the fool who is the subject of the response.

And so, with that, I have forced these two verses to remain as opposites with no clear answer to how to use them. It takes wisdom.

And I pray that we have the wisdom it would take to respond to some of the fool's folly that we are faced with.

[77150]

Originally Posted by OBW

While I agree with you overall, the real question is "to whom are we actually responding?" In other words, are we responding to the LSM, the BBs, etc.? Or are we making response for the consumption of others who are affected by the positions that they take, either as members of the LRC or as those harmed?.

Leaving the LRC is a response. I see no reason to direct the response specifically to the LSM, BBs, etc.

However, if you remain in the LRC I think it is imperative that you make a clear testimony that you do not condone or agree with their sins. Otherwise, your silence allows them to continue and I believe you will be held accountable.

So you may have had absolutely nothing to do with Daystar, yet you continue to uphold LSM as a NT Ministry. That to me is an insult and slap in the face of those defrauded by them and you will be held accountable for that.

Or, if you know that JI, JF, and BM were standing up for righteousness sake and as a result were scorned and persecuted by WL how can you in good faith close your eyes to that. At the very least you should object to the book "the Fermentation of the Present Rebellion" being sold in your locality. Otherwise you also take part in their sins and hypocrisy by distributing the lie.

How can you not be offended at the letter of apology to PL? If you are, then how could you allow one of the brothers who signed that letter to conduct a training of saints that you or members of your church attend. Your action makes you one with their sin.

Their are other possible responses, but I think the ones I have mentioned should act as a reasonable guide.