Can you dismiss WL's ministry because of his sins?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

...But even those who knew, like Samuel Chang, would never speak up. Whether Chinese culture, fear of retaliation, or just plain belief in the nonsense taught, they remained silent about the unrighteousness.

And yet we wax poetic about the chain of events that led us to the place where "blessings abound" and all Christians of any kind not within the fold are chastised as worldly, satanic, demonic, etc., while we eat up the "you're special" rhetoric.

There is no need for me to wax poetic, you have already done that. Suppose I cede that everything you have said is the truth and that WL could not say anything in his defense. Let me also cede that your judgement is just and right and that even though you have usurped Jesus position as judge that He would thank you because you have done all the hard work and made it easy for Him.

Even if you cede all that you are forgetting Hebrews 10:30

10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, not to you. You are robbing the Lord of his opportunity to take vengeance.

By all means expose falsehood, lies, deceit. But when it comes to judgement and vengeance you have to leave that to the Lord.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, not to you. You are robbing the Lord of his opportunity to take vengeance.

By all means expose falsehood, lies, deceit. But when it comes to judgement and vengeance you have to leave that to the Lord.

Isn't the greatest role of a judge to pass sentence or execute the judgement? None of us can do that, even if WL were alive. It is altogether another matter to discuss how people have been hurt by the system.

Those within the system are convinced and held by fear in complete silence. They feel the judgement of Ham or Meriam will come upon them if they say anything. Obviously this is wrong, and has only served to enable the leaders to do worse.

What I am looking for is to remain within my healthy limits. For me to keep silent would have been wrong. For me to judge others is also prohibited. What should be the proper role of those departing from an abusive system that has deteriorated over time?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is no need for me to wax poetic, you have already done that. Suppose I cede that everything you have said is the truth and that WL could not say anything in his defense. Let me also cede that your judgment is just and right and that even though you have usurped Jesus position as judge that He would thank you because you have done all the hard work and made it easy for Him.

Even if you cede all that you are forgetting Hebrews 10:30

10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, not to you. You are robbing the Lord of his opportunity to take vengeance.

By all means expose falsehood, lies, deceit. But when it comes to judgment and vengeance you have to leave that to the Lord.

Off topic. Non responsive. Strawman. Red herring.

Any number of ways to respond to your irrelevancy.

I have not exacted vengeance on anyone. I am warning others of a dangerous pit with a false floor covering it. I do not desire to skewer Lee. I desire for those who are blinded by his charm, charisma, and rhetoric to be freed from it. It would be the same if he were alive. I really don't care if he gets his "just dessert." I only care that chains are broken, eyes are healed, and captives are set free.

I presume that a dose of the truth — and not just "truth" as defined by Lee — will help many find their way to that freedom and healing. It won't be to my benefit, but to theirs.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

Off topic. Non responsive. Strawman. Red herring.

Any number of ways to respond to your irrelevancy.

I have not exacted vengeance on anyone. I am warning others of a dangerous pit with a false floor covering it. I do not desire to skewer Lee. I desire for those who are blinded by his charm, charisma, and rhetoric to be freed from it. It would be the same if he were alive. I really don't care if he gets his "just dessert." I only care that chains are broken, eyes are healed, and captives are set free.

I presume that a dose of the truth — and not just "truth" as defined by Lee — will help many find their way to that freedom and healing. It won't be to my benefit, but to theirs.

Off Topic? The topic is defined in the first post, it is the comment in red. You are not the topic. What you are doing and what you desire to do is completely irrelevant to this thread. The use of the term “true servant of God” is without doubt a judgement. If your post summarizing the sins of WL was not a defense of this judgement then your post was off topic and a strawman. The use of the term jury in post #1 implies judgement. I am aware that my understanding may not have been the intended meaning, so I made it clear in the first post just say so and that would be that. So although that post quotes your quote of James, I did not imply that it was clear what you were saying. That is why I said Unreg “restated” your post.

If we were both at the judgement seat of Christ when WL was being judged and the Lord said “You are not a true servant of God, depart from me, I never knew you” that would be a judgement and it would be vengeance. That is the topic of this thread, whose place is it to utter that judgement? Is it for this forum, or for Untohim, or is this something reserved only for the Lord.

This is why I also quoted the reference to the church in Ephesus in Revelation by Untohim. Is judging that an apostle is false equivalent to saying that WL is not a true servant of God or not? Nor have I suggested that I have the answer, as Ohio has pointed out this is like splitting hairs. I feel it is like what is referred to in Hebrews, immature Christians are not practiced in the word of righteousness. I would agree that this is not an easy concept, but I think it is crucial.

So your post does not address the topic nor have you clarified the confusion of your post. Do you believe there is a fundamental truth in the NT that blessing and cursing cannot come from the same source. Since WL’s sins can be considered cursing or poison is that a valid basis to reject all of his ministry?