Prophecy - The End Times

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Nell

Z,

What about you? What, or who, is the beast?

Nell

My interpretation is vastly different but I was asking to understand what it means to others who don’t hold the same view. Anyways, my understanding is the beasts in revelation are satan & the state. The beasts in revelation mimic God and try to be God.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

My interpretation is vastly different but I was asking to understand what it means to others who don’t hold the same view. Anyways, my understanding is the beasts in revelation are satan & the state. The beasts in revelation mimic God and try to be God.

I think there is overwhelming evidence that the Beast is a man, not just one who is against Christ, but one who will claim to be Christ Himself, the long awaited Messiah of Israel. Of course, the Beast will mimic the Lord and try to be God, probably using AI to his full advantage.

For example, both claim to be Messiah of Israel, God Himself in the flesh. Both serve 3.5 years, performing signs and wonders, speaking wisdom and truth. Both die, and then "rise" from the dead. (The beast will rise like Lazarus, only to be tossed into the lake of fire when the Son of Man does appear.)

Initially, at least for the first half of Daniel's 70th week, the Beast will be everything that Jesus Christ was "supposed to be" - powerful leader bringing peace and security to the world. Most of the world will believe that Jesus Christ was a failure, and now we have the "real" Christ. They will all marvel at him, saying "who is like the beast?" Unlike Jesus, who only appeared in Israel, this Beast will appear to the entire world.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I think there is overwhelming evidence that the Beast is a man, not just one who is against Christ, but one who will claim to be Christ Himself, the long awaited Messiah of Israel. Of course, the Beast will mimic the Lord and try to be God, probably using AI to his full advantage.

For example, both claim to be Messiah of Israel, God Himself in the flesh. Both serve 3.5 years, performing signs and wonders, speaking wisdom and truth. Both die, and then "rise" from the dead. (The beast will rise like Lazarus, only to be tossed into the lake of fire when the Son of Man does appear.)

Initially, at least for the first half of Daniel's 70th week, the Beast will be everything that Jesus Christ was "supposed to be" - powerful leader bringing peace and security to the world. Most of the world will believe that Jesus Christ was a failure, and now we have the "real" Christ. They will all marvel at him, saying "who is like the beast?" Unlike Jesus, who only appeared in Israel, this Beast will appear to the entire world.

Clear and very good explanation Ohio !

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For example, both claim to be Messiah of Israel, God Himself in the flesh.

Are there any verses that indicate the AC will claim to be the Messiah? And do you think the Jews in general will belive him?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Are there any verses that indicate the AC will claim to be the Messiah? And do you think the Jews in general will believe him?

Matt 24.3-5: "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many."

Matt 24.23: "At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

Obviously Israel, especially as the end of the age approaches, will be looking for their long-promised Messiah. Actually the Bible never refers to this person as "THE Antichrist," rather by various other descriptors.

Daniel 9.27 refers to him as the Prince. "He [the Prince of the restored Roman empire, the forth of the Beasts in Daniel] will make a treaty with the many [referring to most of those in Israel, but not all] for one week [referring to a 7 year period of time.] In the middle of the week [referring to 3.5 years after the covenant was made] he [referring to the Prince] will put an end to sacrifice and offering. [these are Levitical animal sacrifices] And at the temple [indicting that the temple must have been rebuilt] he [the Prince, "who was not, and now is" according to Revelation 17.8] will set up an abomination that causes desolation, [referred to by Jesus Himself in Matthew 24.15] until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” [according to Rev 19.19-20]

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I think there is overwhelming evidence that the Beast is a man.

I’m not ruling this view out, but when was the last time you saw a man “two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon”?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

I’m not ruling this view out, but when was the last time you saw a man “two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon”?

Do you want me to name names? These words in Revelation 13 are metaphorical, but not hyperbolic. Do you ever watch the news? Things are only getting worse. People love lies and hate the truth. Eventually this world will provide an eager audience when these 2 Beasts appear on the scene.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Ohio

These words in Revelation 13 are metaphorical, but not hyperbolic..

As you read prophecy such as revelation 13, how do you determine what is metaphorical and what isn’t?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

As you read prophecy such as revelation 13, how do you determine what is metaphorical and what isn’t?

Here is an excellent example of the author, Carol Yoakum, who did extensive study of world history in parallel with Daniel 7 in her paper on Prophecy Fulfilled, written in 2017. Carol has answered the question "metaphor for what?" by highlighting the metaphorical nature of prophecy with parallels of literal, factual, fulfillment of the prophecy.

Ohio may have further answer to your question.

Daniel 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

This prophecy matches Germany in every detail. Nazi Germany was a lion, the most deadly enemy in Jewish history. It killed six million. The lion with eagle's wings is a picture of the German blitzkriegs, which had the speed of an eagle with the power of a lion.

The wings must also represent Germany's eastern and western fronts. The Soviet Union plucked off the eastern wing, and the western Allies plucked off the western wing. Then it was made to stand on two feet like a man. Germany made a remarkable economic recovery after the war. The whole country was rebuilt, and it now has the strongest economy in Europe. And it was given a man's heart. After the war the people turned away from Nazism. The Berlin airlift in 1948 helped to turn their hearts toward their former enemies. The "candy bombers" won over the children. Germany has been a U.S. ally ever since.

Adolf Hitler was a forerunner of the antichrist. He was the lion's mouth, persuading the masses. He believed the Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and the Holocaust was his attempt to remove them in order to make way for a German thousand-year reich. Like the antichrist, he had no respect for treaties (Daniel 9:27). They were just pieces of paper to use deceitfully to accomplish his purpose.

Like the antichrist, he (Hitler) had a false prophet. Joseph Goebbels, his Minister of Propaganda, caused the people to worship Hitler. As the antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire together, so also Hitler and Goebbels were together in the Berlin bunker and died just one day apart.

A brief mention of Revelation 13:1

Daniel's prophecy in Revelation
Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Revelation 13:1
The fourth beast of Daniel chapter 7 appears in Revelation, but the first three beasts are notably absent. These three were not ancient empires ... . Nor will they come at the very end of the age, for their stories are not told in the book of Revelation. Their stories are written in modern history.

Hope this helps.
Nell

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Nell

Here is an excellent example of the author, Carol Yoakum, who did extensive study of world history in parallel with Daniel 7 in her paper on Prophecy Fulfilled, written in 2017. Carol has answered the question "metaphor for what?" by highlighting the metaphorical nature of prophecy with parallels of literal, factual, fulfillment of the prophecy.

Ohio may have further answer to your question.

A brief mention of Revelation 13:1

Hope this helps.
Nell

Very interesting, thanks for sharing this.

To clarify, I’m seeking to understand how to determine if something is metaphorical or not. If the beasts are metaphorical, why isn’t the mark? Genuinely asking how you determine what is metaphorical and what isn’t.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

As you read prophecy such as revelation 13, how do you determine what is metaphorical and what isn’t?

For example, Revelation and Daniel both speak of a number of “beasts.” Some commentators say these are empires, and some say they are certain individuals. They both have their points, and their views. I try to discern which is more faithful to the scripture, and in many cases both are correct. In other words, the “beasts” refer to both the leader and his empire, often determined by the context.

When reading these books, we need to be like detectives. We must gather the verses and study. Often, I come up with a “hunch,” an understanding of the facts, much like a detective gathers known evidence and tries to solve a “crime,” developing a theory of what has happened. Perhaps the “hunch” comes from pieces of others’ writings. Then I go back and try to fit all the verses into my interpretation of events. If that fails, try another. Does this make sense?

In this way, we are handling the scripture like a “craftsman,” rightly dividing the word of God. I learned this method years ago from Dr. Philip Comfort, and it has always served me well.

[OBW]

And some say that the beasts are shrubberies. ("Bring me a shrubbery! One that looks nice. And not too expensive.")

The question that I ask is whether thinking one version of what a beast is v another version has any significance to my living today? Might the important thing be to understand that things get more difficult? (They always will.) And that we should be ready to live as we have been charged no matter what we face?

I know.