Prophecy - The End Times

Witness Lee and his disciples sit in the “temple” (I.e church) today and claim to be gods, where does that put them in the big picture of your theology?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Witness Lee and his disciples sit in the “temple” (I.e church) today and claim to be gods, where does that put them in the big picture of your theology?

Just plain old heretics.

Nell

Since the temple in the Old Testament (old covenant) signified two things:

1) God’s dwelling place on earth.
2) Separation between God and man, due to the veil and sacrificial system.

Since under the new covenant, God is no longer dwells on earth in temples, such as a man built buildings, and there is no longer the separation between God and man through the work of the cross and the resurrection, can you please tell me why would a new manmade temple needs to be built?

Thank you.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Since the temple in the Old Testament (old covenant) signified two things:

1) God’s dwelling place on earth.
2) Separation between God and man, due to the veil and sacrificial system.

Since under the new covenant, God is no longer dwells on earth in temples, such as a man built buildings, and there is no longer the separation between God and man through the work of the cross and the resurrection, can you please tell me why would a new manmade temple needs to be built?

Thank you.

Currently, the nation of Israel is under the Old Covenant. Had they believed and received Jesus, then there would be no need for a physical Temple, as you said. But they have rejected their true Messiah, and are still waiting for Him. Presently all the materials for this new Temple are stored and ready for immediate construction. Their covenant with God and their Law requires a Temple to be built, and they have been waiting to rebuild their Temple since it was destroyed.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Currently, the nation of Israel is under the Old Covenant. Had they believed and received Jesus, then there would be no need for a physical Temple, as you said. But they have rejected their true Messiah, and are still waiting for Him. Presently all the materials for this new Temple are stored and ready for immediate construction. Their covenant with God and their Law requires a Temple to be built, and they have been waiting to rebuild their Temple since it was destroyed.

Oh okay,
I must have been reading the wrong Bible my whole life, because as far I remember it’s says that the “old is abolished” or “no longer”.

So is the church is kind of a side kick to the “Israel”? Or better to say, is the church being held hostage because the Jews rejected Jesus? Do you also believe that ALL biological Jews dead or alive will be saved regardless of their belief in Christ while in this world? Had a member of the Recovery claim these things to me before. I don’t believe in 1000 years of “self improvement” ie Recovery purgatory, so where does that put biological Jews? Is there consequences for their unbelief just as there is consequences for all other nations or people for rejection of Jesus Christ?
Thanks

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Oh okay,
I must have been reading the wrong Bible my whole life, because as far I remember it’s says that the “old is abolished” or “no longer”.

So is the church is kind of a side kick to the “Israel”? Or better to say, is the church being held hostage because the Jews rejected Jesus? Do you also believe that ALL biological Jews dead or alive will be saved regardless of their belief in Christ while in this world? Had a member of the Recovery claim these things to me before. I don’t believe in 1000 years of “self improvement” ie Recovery purgatory, so where does that put biological Jews? Is there consequences for their unbelief just as there is consequences for all other nations or people for rejection of Jesus Christ?
Thanks

Unregistered,
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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Oh okay,
I must have been reading the wrong Bible my whole life, because as far I remember it’s says that the “old is abolished” or “no longer”.

So is the church is kind of a side kick to the “Israel”? Or better to say, is the church being held hostage because the Jews rejected Jesus? Do you also believe that ALL biological Jews dead or alive will be saved regardless of their belief in Christ while in this world? Had a member of the Recovery claim these things to me before. I don’t believe in 1000 years of “self improvement” ie Recovery purgatory, so where does that put biological Jews? Is there consequences for their unbelief just as there is consequences for all other nations or people for rejection of Jesus Christ?
Thanks

Yes, please do register for further discussion. As an added benefit, you do not have to receive endless annoying emails like those I get from everyone else who demands my email address.

As a guiding principle in understanding the Bible, God's covenant to Abram/Abraham was to have children in number "like the sand of the sea and the stars of the heaven." (Genesis 22.17; Romans 9.27; 1st Corinthians 15.41) Thus Abraham's descendants are both heavenly and earthly. This point is often missed with younger Christians. The "sand" refers to the biological children of Israel. The "stars" refer to the gentile children of faith.

Perhaps other posters here could recommend some (non-LSM) reference books/reading material that could assist you on this topic. I just returned from an out of town family funeral and have another out of town family funeral next week to prepare for. UntoHim often recommends Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology. Perhaps he has addressed this topic.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Oh okay,
I must have been reading the wrong Bible my whole life, because as far I remember it’s says that the “old is abolished” or “no longer”.

No you haven’t been reading it wrong. However, it sounds like you are unaware that there are different frameworks for biblical interpretation, the two most common are Covenant Theology & Dispensational theology.

These two frameworks don’t effect the main tenets of the Christian faith, but they do have dramatically different views on Israel & the church, as well as eschatology beliefs.

This thread primarily discusses the end times through the framework of Dispensationalism. Which is why you’re experiencing some friction because you most likely have understood the Bible from the Covenant framework.

It’s okay to not share the same view on eschatology as someone else, there’s a ton of different beliefs around that subject. You just need to determine what you believe, and what your spirit confirms.

The main tenets of the Christian faith are universal, but the secondary theological beliefs are not. It’s not uncommon to find a Christian who thinks the modern day nation of Israel is the same Israel from the Bible or to find a Christian who thinks the Israel from the Bible is not the modern day nation of Israel.

Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology breaks down the different frameworks more, you could also start at the Wikipedia pages.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

No you haven’t been reading it wrong. However, it sounds like you are unaware that there are different frameworks for biblical interpretation, the two most common are Covenant Theology & Dispensational theology.

These two frameworks don’t effect the main tenets of the Christian faith, but they do have dramatically different views on Israel & the church, as well as eschatology beliefs.

This thread primarily discusses the end times through the framework of Dispensationalism. Which is why you’re experiencing some friction because you most likely have understood the Bible from the Covenant framework.

It’s okay to not share the same view on eschatology as someone else, there’s a ton of different beliefs around that subject. You just need to determine what you believe, and what your spirit confirms.

The main tenets of the Christian faith are universal, but the secondary theological beliefs are not. It’s not uncommon to find a Christian who thinks the modern day nation of Israel is the same Israel from the Bible or to find a Christian who thinks the Israel from the Bible is not the modern day nation of Israel.

Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology breaks down the different frameworks more, you could also start at the Wikipedia pages.

Great post here. Just last night an old brother and I were discussing some of the extremes of Dispensational Theology, which we are more familiar with. Knowing diverse frameworks and comparing them with Scripture really helps us know the truth.

Originally Posted by Zezima

No you haven’t been reading it wrong. However, it sounds like you are unaware that there are different frameworks for biblical interpretation, the two most common are Covenant Theology & Dispensational theology.

These two frameworks don’t effect the main tenets of the Christian faith, but they do have dramatically different views on Israel & the church, as well as eschatology beliefs.

This thread primarily discusses the end times through the framework of Dispensationalism. Which is why you’re experiencing some friction because you most likely have understood the Bible from the Covenant framework.

It’s okay to not share the same view on eschatology as someone else, there’s a ton of different beliefs around that subject. You just need to determine what you believe, and what your spirit confirms.

The main tenets of the Christian faith are universal, but the secondary theological beliefs are not. It’s not uncommon to find a Christian who thinks the modern day nation of Israel is the same Israel from the Bible or to find a Christian who thinks the Israel from the Bible is not the modern day nation of Israel.

Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology breaks down the different frameworks more, you could also start at the Wikipedia pages.

Thank you. I’m aware of the things that you mentioned to some extent. I guess I definitely don’t fall into hyper dispensational view like a lot of the members and people with the Recovery, or I guess any dispensational views to be clear. I should have read more posts at the beginning of this thread before I commented. Sorry

I definitely don’t fall into dispensationalism so I will refrain from comments any further. Thanks guys for even considering my questions.

********************************

Unregistered,
Sorry to see you go.
Admin/Moderator

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

...
It’s okay to not share the same view on eschatology as someone else, there’s a ton of different beliefs around that subject. You just need to determine what you believe, and what your spirit confirms....

Another option is "if you don't know the truth of a matter, don't form an opinion until you do know."

We truly don't know such matters conclusively. Further, do we really need to determine what we believe regarding schools of thought, and such other doctrines? There are certain matters of the faith that are not negotiable. This discussion is not such. We're told to "watch and pray" and other good advice.

I have certain thoughts that I think may be headed in the right direction, but ultimately I have to say "I don't know for sure." Until the Lord tells me more, I think that's good enough. Keep asking Him questions.

Nell