|
|
|||||||
| Apologetic discussions Apologetic Discussions Regarding the Teachings of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
10-21-2022, 05:20 AM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 424
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
This article is lengthy and covers one person's view on Hell.
(manna-man, you are gonna love this one, which means you have prolly seen it already) I am posting it here because a good part of the article covers the KJV insertion of the word 'hell' and the attempts by more recent translations to correct the text. https://tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html |
|
|
10-21-2022, 05:51 AM
|
#2 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,064
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
Thanks Timotheist. Harold
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise. |
|
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 08:11 AM
|
#3 | |
|
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,828
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
Here are places that would welcome this kind of speech: https://blog.feedspot.com/atheist_forums/ https://atheistforums.org/ https://atheistdiscussion.org/ -
__________________
αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11 |
|
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 08:18 AM
|
#4 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,064
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise. |
|
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 08:50 AM
|
#5 | ||
|
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,828
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
Quote:
Firstly, in the verse I cited, the Kingdom of God is compared/contrasted with "the domain of darkness". I think Paul could have easily stated it in the reverse: "Delivered from the kingdom of darkness and transferred to the domain of his beloved Son". Every kingdom needs to have a king.....else it's really not a kingdom!  In any event, is there any doubt that the head/leader/king of the domain of darkness is Satan?Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me." (Matt 4:8,9) The devil could not possibly give what he does not own. The "kingdoms of the world" have to have a king, and according to this passage that king is the devil, Satan. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4) "the god of this world" is Satan. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the god of this world is the king of this world. (esp when considered in the light of Matt 4:8,9.) In the end the god of this world, together with his kingdom and those beings that have voluntarily chosen to come under the king of this kingdom, shall be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Whether or not this is an "annihilation" is not as important as the fact that God has provided an escape from this destination, for he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not parish by have eternal life. My brothers and sisters, my friends, lurkers, haters, doubters: I am here to tell you that Universalism, in any flavor, any form, makes a mockery out of the sacrifice of the cross. It makes God a liar, for his Son said "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES", but Universalism says "No worries, though you rejected my Son and the sacrifice he made, you will be treated just as though you didn't". Die as an unrepentant murderer, rapist, child abuser, human trafficker, drug dealer to kids....NO WORRIES! You just get to go to sleep for eternity! -
__________________
αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11 |
||
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 09:53 AM
|
#6 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 405
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
I haven't heard anyone defend universalism here. However I do see certain people claiming that God is more of a tyrant than Hitler. Yes it's important very important to grasp the most important word that God has provided grace and it's just as important that defending his character by standing up to the false doctrine of eternal torment....a doctrine of demons. I'm beginning to suspect those who can't grasp this fact that their love has waxed cold as ice. Or their senses/own character. Harold might be joking about not believing in hell. I seriously don't believe in the eternal torment version. I believe that hades, sheol and any other word describing it is describing death or the grave. No, I don't think it's necessary to go to college for years to learn how to translate something when I've got technology and the gumption to seek out and find the answers to my questions. Besides technology I have something even better. The Holy Spirit who teaches me all the things I need to know. God is in control...Not out of control. God is Love and He loves us. Peace |
|
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 11:43 AM
|
#7 |
|
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,828
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Sorry manna-man, God doesn't need anyone to defend his character...he has done just fine for eternity not needing you, me or anyone else. God's character was on full display when he sent his only begotten son to make the ultimate sacrifice on the cross. I solemnly tell you that the worse doctrine of demons is to add or take away from the sacred Word he has given. The Lord Jesus' words ARE THE WORD OF GOD: "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". (Matt 13:41,42) I have studied Koine Greek for over 20 years. The proper and correct translation of κάμινος kaminos - πῦρ pyr IS FURNACE OF FIRE or FIERY FURNACE. This comports completely with the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20. This Lake of Fire burns "forever and ever". No crazy poem or rant or rave from heretical Universalists is EVER going to change what the Lord Jesus proclaimed in these verses.
manna-man you are too insistent on your private interpretation. You also insult me and others here by implying that if we don't accept your private interpretation our "love has waxed cold as ice". This is the kind of thing Witness Lee would say. Shame on you. Yes, God is in control. Nice of you to admit that. He is also the Potter. We are all but vessels of clay. The Potter has full control over his clay: But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory This Gary Amirault fellow, who you have referenced twice now, is a stone-cold Universalist. Do you not understand that? His "poem" is blasphemous and belittles the sacrifice of the cross made by the Lord Jesus. -
__________________
αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11 |
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 01:32 PM
|
#8 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 424
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
But my question was in response to your statement "Heaven and Hell are actually just two different kingdoms - each with it's own king." so let me try this a different way: What are the "Gates of Hell" (KJV)? Is it referring to Satan's kingdom, who is fighting to prevent the church from being built? If you believe this, I would like to see proof using other scripture. Spoiler alert: there are none. This is one of the many "dangerous" (borrowing your word) aspects of the KJV. The translators bought in a Heaven/Hell model of the afterlife, with Satan replacing Pluto or Hades as the god of the underworld. Rather, Hades (Sheol in the Hebrew) is clearly a place for dead souls to be held until resurrection. It is not an evil place, It is not a Kingdom with a King that is fighting the building of the church. This description is supported by a large number of OT passages. So Jesus was telling Peter that not even death would stop His church from being built. Nothing more. Nothing less. The bride will be built after the resurrection from Hades. Why? Because Christ has the keys to open the Gates and call out His church! So, if Hades is a Kingdom, then Christ is the King! The war is with the ruler of this world, not the grave. If you share this viewpoint with me, then I apologize for singling you out. If not, your response was nothing but a filibuster, answering a different question like a seasoned politician. And my question had NOTHING to do with Universalism, of which I am not a believer. Last edited by Timotheist; 10-21-2022 at 05:22 PM. |
|
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 08:43 PM
|
#9 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 405
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Interesting... found this quote from one of Matt Andersons replies to brother Mallons passing.
I can picture that perpetual grin Bill had on his face as he gave advice to Matt. "Be sure to separate the "prescriptive" aspects of the Word of God from the "descriptive" aspects. Doctrine built on top of "descriptive" text is potentially dangerous." |
|
|
|
10-22-2022, 08:31 PM
|
#10 | |
|
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,828
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
 -
__________________
αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11 |
|
|
|
|
10-21-2022, 06:03 AM
|
#11 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 405
|
Re: No Place Like Hell
Quote:
Yes indeed. Here's a poem about hell from the late Gary Amirault if you didn't see it the last time I posted... https://youtu.be/dwYLSnX-cdU |
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
